THE RESPONSIBILITY TO RETURN SCORES FROM COMPETITIONS

[Deleted member 1147]

In the previous 2 seasons we played some comps which weren’t deemed to be qualifiers.
They were individual stablefords, but also played as a team comp, with your 3/4 ball being your team.
We were told that they weren’t qualifiers because we could get help and advice from our teammates in those particular comps.

What would the situation be under whs?

 

[sunshine]

WHS should reflect your potential to play at a certain level on any course.
The course though is rated depending on the length and difficulty of the course.
Putting in scores "off the whites" in theory gives you an artificially low index.
A handicap gives us all the ability to compete against others on a more level playing field. Gaining a low handicap over the winter will not allow a level playing field if others haven't done the same.
I wonder if you are losing matches just now that you might not have lost?

Playing a shorter and easier course will always lead to a lower a handicap I think, regardless of old system or new system. Now we have slope rating but it doesn't seem to make much difference from what I've seen.

Also, my understanding is that WHS is supposed to be a bit more dynamic than CONGU, so your index reflects your form as well as potential.

 

[Old Skier]

In the previous 2 seasons we played some comps which weren’t deemed to be qualifiers.
They were individual stablefords, but also played as a team comp, with your 3/4 ball being your team.
We were told that they weren’t qualifiers because we could get help and advice from our teammates in those particular comps.

What would the situation be under whs?

You cannot play a comp within a comp.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

You cannot play a comp within a comp.

It was for our President’s golf day.
An organised event, run by the club.

 

[2blue]

In the previous 2 seasons we played some comps which weren’t deemed to be qualifiers.
They were individual stablefords, but also played as a team comp, with your 3/4 ball being your team.
We were told that they weren’t qualifiers because we could get help and advice from our teammates in those particular comps.

What would the situation be under whs?

We have a similar Event & have never accepted the Individual scores as Q because of the opportunities for advice from other team members especially the low H/capper each team has. The Individual side is usually won with a 45/48pt score from a mid to high H/capper. It annoys some members enormously but is after all just a fun Event.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

We have a similar Event & have never accepted the Individual scores as Q because of the opportunities for advice from other team members especially the low H/capper each team has. The Individual side is usually won with a 45/48pt score from a mid to high H/capper. It annoys some members enormously but is after all just a fun Event.

Problem is that I’ve had some cracking scores in them, without getting advice, and it’s hard enough as it is to get cuts with a relatively low handicap.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You cannot play a comp within a comp.

This is going to have to be something we take into account when in our Rollups we play a friendly, informal 4BBB alongside the individual stableford counting comp. Where previously I could seek advice of my partner and we could share thoughts etc - as a friendly rollup comp we didn't care - but in future we won't be able to do that.

Though on reflection I don't think we did very much on the advice giving side of things or do such as my partner putting first to show me the line if I had a good score going in any case. But we'll certainly have to be aware that our friendly, informal 4BBB match must take a backseat. But that's OK. Same as it always was - the individual comp always took precedence and consequently we were careful to not give advice to our 4BBB partner.

 

[AliMc]

WHS should reflect your potential to play at a certain level on any course.
The course though is rated depending on the length and difficulty of the course.
Putting in scores "off the whites" in theory gives you an artificially low index.
A handicap gives us all the ability to compete against others on a more level playing field. Gaining a low handicap over the winter will not allow a level playing field if others haven't done the same.
I wonder if you are losing matches just now that you might not have lost?

Haven't lost in the last 8, we are just playing friendly games off scratch

 

[Old Skier]

This is going to have to be something we take into account when in our Rollups we play a friendly, informal 4BBB alongside the individual stableford counting comp. Where previously I could seek advice of my partner and we could share thoughts etc - as a friendly rollup comp we didn't care - but in future we won't be able to do that.

Though on reflection I don't think we did very much on the advice giving side of things or do such as my partner putting first to show me the line if I had a good score going in any case. But we'll certainly have to be aware that our friendly, informal 4BBB match must take a backseat. But that's OK. Same as it always was - the individual comp always took precedence and consequently we were careful to not give advice to our 4BBB partner.

This isn’t a new thing so hopefully it was taken into account on previous roll ups, it seems that, if cards had been used for HC purposes someone has not been advising those playing correctly.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This isn’t a new thing so hopefully it was taken into account on previous roll ups, it seems that, if cards had been used for HC purposes someone has not been advising those playing correctly.

It was - but only informally. We knew in our 4BBB pairs that we should not really be advising our playing partner on what he might do - which is a bit tricky when playing 4BBB. In truth it didn't matter previously as the individual comp wasn't a qualifier and we were all not that bothered about our scores - whereas going forward it'll be a 'round for the pot' and so we'll have to be much more aware - it still won't matter to most of us - but we don't want to keep getting DQ'd for accepting advice.

 

[Old Skier]

It was - but only informally. We knew in our 4BBB pairs that we should not really be advising our playing partner on what he might do - which is a bit tricky when playing 4BBB. In truth it didn't matter previously as the individual comp wasn't a qualifier and we were all not that bothered about our scores - whereas going forward it'll be a 'round for the pot' and so we'll have to be much more aware - it still won't matter to most of us - but we don't want to keep getting DQ'd for accepting advice.

Sorry if this has been covered before but if these are casual roll ups with no official committee involvement they don’t have any standing for qualifying purposes unless the individual registers the round.

Once again, if I’m covering old ground I apologise.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry if this has been covered before but if these are casual roll ups with no official committee involvement they don’t have any standing for qualifying purposes unless the individual registers the round.

Once again, if I’m covering old ground I apologise.

No that's OK. My club has decided that rollup competition rounds should count as 'one for the pot'. And I think that that is regardless of whether we continue to have to use IG booking and scoring. The view is that for WHS to provide fullest benefit to all then we need to include as much 'competitive' golf as possible.

 

[jim8flog]

Sorry if this has been covered before but if these are casual roll ups with no official committee involvement they don’t have any standing for qualifying purposes unless the individual registers the round.

Once again, if I’m covering old ground I apologise.

Not right. The Handicap committee can accept scores from a competition not organised

Rules of Handicapping defs
General Play
When an organized competition is not being contested and golfers are playing:
l A casual round; or
l Competitively, but not in an event organized by a Committee.

I am not sure exactly where I read it but in one of the briefings it specifically said scores from 'roll ups' etc are acceptable for handicap purposes at the clubs discretion.

 

[Old Skier]

Not right. The Handicap committee can accept scores from a competition not organised

Rules of Handicapping defs
General Play
When an organized competition is not being contested and golfers are playing:
l A casual round; or
l Competitively, but not in an event organized by a Committee.

I am not sure exactly where I read it but in one of the briefings it specifically said scores from 'roll ups' etc are acceptable for handicap purposes at the clubs discretion.

Not disputing any of the above but individuals or organizers would have to pre register before hand and ensure all cards/scores are returned.

 

[rulefan]

Not disputing any of the above but individuals or organizers would have to pre register before hand and ensure all cards/scores are returned.

And all the other conditions of Rule 2 must be satisfied.

 

[sweaty sock]

This is the first step where we start to deviate from the rigour of congu handicaps.

At furst its a bit of advice that "wouldnt make much difference, I'll still sign the card".

Then its "pah, it was a gimme for the match, so its fine"

Before you know it everyones handicap is being played for under different rules, and we're in the situation US is in where no two handicaps mean the same thing.

 

[doublebogey7]

This is the first step where we start to deviate from the rigour of congu handicaps.

At furst its a bit of advice that "wouldnt make much difference, I'll still sign the card".

Then its "pah, it was a gimme for the match, so its fine"

Before you know it everyones handicap is being played for under different rules, and we're in the situation US is in where no two handicaps mean the same thing.

I disagree, the CONGU system only counted play in single competitions organised by a clubs committee, this resulted in many players, who may have played over 100 runds in a year only having 3 qualifying scores. these are players eveyone moanes about when they take away the pot in opens, roll ups and better ball comps. Handicaps were not full refection of these players play. The WHS enviages, in time, most rounds from us all being acceptable scores. In needs a culture change and that will take time but in the long term it is my view that WHS will provide a ore robust handicap.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This is the first step where we start to deviate from the rigour of congu handicaps.

At furst its a bit of advice that "wouldnt make much difference, I'll still sign the card".

Then its "pah, it was a gimme for the match, so its fine"

Before you know it everyones handicap is being played for under different rules, and we're in the situation US is in where no two handicaps mean the same thing.

In our counting rollup comps there will be gimmes in any informal 4BBB match being played alongside the counting singles comp - but these 4BBB ’gimmes‘ will still have to be holed.

 

[AliMc]

In our counting rollup comps there will be gimmes in any informal 4BBB match being played alongside the counting singles comp - but these 4BBB ’gimmes‘ will still have to be holed.

Happens many times SilH, 'that's fine in our match but as you're keeping a GP score you're going to have to hole out' ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Happens many times SilH, 'that's fine in our match but as you're keeping a GP score you're going to have to hole out' ?

Absolutely. Every Saturday the club organises a 'sign up on the day as you turn up' stableford that is a qualifying round - and this will now be a WHS 'one for the pot' round (I don't even think of it as a 'counting' round as most of the time it wont be). I could choose to enter the club's qualifying stableford comp as well as play in the rollup. As a result I had to hole every putt even although in the context of the rollup I might be given some.

And so in effect what has happened now that our rollup individual stableford comp is to be a WHS 'one for the pot' round is just what happened previously if I had entered the club stableford qualifier. I claim rights over FTP/OFTP - as in an WHS FTP (For the Pot) round