Submitting scores on a Captain's Away Day

[Bratty]

AND that's what I, as a responsible Captain, was creating as the H/cap Sec & myself, wanted that to happen & sadly, as we've found here, you can't rely on the integrity of all golfers to do what is clearly required of them.
I think your further stuff about mud-balls etc is rather irrelevant as courses are not then Q.
You must surely realize that the poll is not a democratic exercise but rather a gauge of folks feelings on putting in GP cards away from their course. The offer to re-think their vote after hearing more about their responsibilities was an opportunity for reflection.

Nothing to do with integrity. You are clinging to your belief that you are 100% right and anyone at your club complaining about it is wrong.
Did you come on here with the poll to get 98% yeses that you could take back to the naysayer members as some sort of evidence? If so, maybe you should have asked the R&A via email and shared their response with your members. We're not the rule makers, they are.
Mud balls by themselves do not make a course non-qualifying though. The club must determine Q or NQ based on conditions. If they decide it can still be a Q even though you may get a mud ball, then it's just play on and score what you score and your cards going in.
The offer to rethink felt insulting and a little like desperation to me.
And now I really am stopping watching his one.

 

[Bratty]

Where did you get that?
My copy of the Rules doesn't include an interpretation 2.1a(2)

Where did you get that? In my copy of the RoH 2.1a(2) doesn't appear.

Take a look at post 310. There's a link to a Handicapping rule doc I found more confusing than helpful.

 

[Golfnut1957]

I can understand you wanting that due to so many happy to ignore their responsibilities but sadly it will then fall on other Club members to report them & that is never healthy in a game that relies on folks integrity. We've seen here just how much we can rely on that. 'Tis the reason Alwoodley never make mats mandatory in winter..... members having to shop others.

At your club, what happens to these members that you report? Do have them banned from comp's, the course, the bar?

 

[Backsticks]

I'm with backsticks. It's an American system and we need to evolve out thinking. My best card out of 20 is a texas scramble. I counted all my shots.

It will still be difficult to do in the short term. Many will still think we are cheating or manipulat8ng your HI when we take mulligans, dont count OBs, and take gimmies in a GP round, even when its explained to them that we are doing that so as NOT to have an unfair handicap. I could see it taking years for this fuller WHS concept to become widely accepted here.

 

[2blue]

Nothing to do with integrity. You are clinging to your belief that you are 100% right and anyone at your club complaining about it is wrong.
Did you come on here with the poll to get 98% yeses that you could take back to the naysayer members as some sort of evidence? If so, maybe you should have asked the R&A via email and shared their response with your members. We're not the rule makers, they are.
Mud balls by themselves do not make a course non-qualifying though. The club must determine Q or NQ based on conditions. If they decide it can still be a Q even though you may get a mud ball, then it's just play on and score what you score and your cards going in.
The offer to rethink felt insulting and a little like desperation to me.
And now I really am stopping watching his one.

I was waiting for you to come back with something like this.
You appear to be unaware that Golf competition is all about playing with integrity.... before, during & after.
The R&A do the Rules of Golf & nothing to do with handicapping. We clearly know the Union's postion & players responsibilities so I think this thread may well be done as others, entrenched, positions are also clear. EYG

 

[RichA]

Of course there is.
A practice round with a mate isn't an organised competition; and general play rounds still need to be pre-registered and meet all the usual conditions to be acceptable for handicapping.

The snippet you posted is a USGA handicapping rules clarification specifically relating to certain types of competition.
The USGA general rule though applies to all rounds played to the rules of golf, so if I play a non-competitive round with a mate to the rules of golf then apparently I must submit the score to WHS.

 

[Deleted member 35577]

Just do what you should do & dont have a paddy over it.

And what should I do?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

AND that's what I, as a responsible Captain, was creating as the H/cap Sec & myself, wanted that to happen & sadly, as we've found here, you can't rely on the integrity of all golfers to do what is clearly required of them.
I think your further stuff about mud-balls etc is rather irrelevant as courses are not then Q.
You must surely realize that the poll is not a democratic exercise but rather a gauge of folks feelings on putting in GP cards away from their course. The offer to re-think their vote after hearing more about their responsibilities was an opportunity for reflection.

That’s clearly not the poll you started

If it was a poll on how people feel about putting in GP scorecards at away courses then you would have got a different response

The poll was clearly about ensuring an away day was made a club competition so that anyone playing had to put their card in

Its two different situations

Create a poll about putting cards in playing on courses away from home and see the result

 

[PNWokingham]

Nothing to do with integrity. You are clinging to your belief that you are 100% right and anyone at your club complaining about it is wrong.
Did you come on here with the poll to get 98% yeses that you could take back to the naysayer members as some sort of evidence? If so, maybe you should have asked the R&A via email and shared their response with your members. We're not the rule makers, they are.
Mud balls by themselves do not make a course non-qualifying though. The club must determine Q or NQ based on conditions. If they decide it can still be a Q even though you may get a mud ball, then it's just play on and score what you score and your cards going in.
The offer to rethink felt insulting and a little like desperation to me.
And now I really am stopping watching his one.

his response with totally condescending and more than pathetic.

 

[wjemather]

The snippet you posted is a USGA handicapping rules clarification specifically relating to certain types of competition.
The USGA general rule though applies to all rounds played to the rules of golf, so if I play a non-competitive round with a mate to the rules of golf then apparently I must submit the score to WHS.

The snippet I posted was taken from the GB&I 2024 rulebook, which still requires general play to be pre-registered, and all acceptable rounds to meet the usual conditions (played by the rules, witnessed, on a measured & rated course, etc.).

 

[D-S]

You appear to be unaware that Golf competition is all about playing with integrity.... before, during & after.
The R&A do the Rules of Golf & nothing to do with handicapping. We clearly know the Union's postion & players responsibilities so I think this thread may well be done as others, entrenched, positions are also clear. EYG

Er………no.

 

[Captainron]

I think I am seeing more of what Dave is on about here form some of his replies.

I believe that he is trying to ensure that the 'perceived club bandits' who attend the away day are made to put a card in because they wouldn't and would most likely win/play well on this away day but suffer no handicap repercussion for this? So this relates to a couple of folk who could directly influence his competition and sour it for the rest?

We all hate handicap cheats and all clubs do have them. I still don't believe that not putting a card in when playing away constitutes 'cheating' but I do see Dave's point.

Why not sack off prizes for 1st/2nd/3rd and have a raffle for the prizes? They can have a 'win' but might not get a prize?

 

[rulefan]

The R&A do the Rules of Golf & nothing to do with handicapping.

Rules of Handicapping
Effective January 2024
© 2023 The United States Golf Association and R&A Rules Limited.
All Rights Reserved.

 

[Oddsocks]

Easy answer. Delete the poll and all agree with the OP.

Then we can all by VW campers and live in peace man

 

[sunshine]

I haven't responded to the poll because I need a third option:

1. Yes
2. No
3. Couldn't give a toss

 

[Swango1980]

I confess I read the first few pages and skipped to the end…

My honest answer is that I just don’t care either way but I’d be suspicious of someone who was strongly against the idea.

Suggest to those guys we can use the handicapping system or not. So if cards aren’t being submitted we’re all playing off scratch.

I'd have been impressed if you had just started reading the thread when it was 17 pages long, and read through every comment. Going through a few pages is impressive enough.

 

[Deleted member 35577]

I think I am seeing more of what Dave is on about here form some of his replies.

I believe that he is trying to ensure that the 'perceived club bandits' who attend the away day are made to put a card in because they wouldn't and would most likely win/play well on this away day but suffer no handicap repercussion for this? So this relates to a couple of folk who could directly influence his competition and sour it for the rest?

We all hate handicap cheats and all clubs do have them. I still don't believe that not putting a card in when playing away constitutes 'cheating' but I do see Dave's point.

Why not sack off prizes for 1st/2nd/3rd and have a raffle for the prizes? They can have a 'win' but might not get a prize?

Simple solution....go along and play but if you want to be part of the competition then you register and submit a card. Everyone's happy.

 

[Swango1980]

Simple solution....go along and play but if you want to be part of the competition then you register and submit a card. Everyone's happy.

Which is exactly what I suggested earlier in thread.

Captains Day runs a competition for the players. But, if anyone simply wants to be involved in the day out for the fun, but don't want the pressure of putting in a card, or feel they will be unable to match the ability at their handicap level, then just opt out of the competition. Might save them a bit of the entry fee, and they can just go out and have a laugh. I think this would surely ensure everyone is happy and accommodated, and I'm pretty sure this wouldn't conflict with what is expected in the Rules of Handicapping.

 

[Oddsocks]

I haven't responded to the poll because I need a third option:

1. Yes
2. No
3. Couldn't give a toss

Our survey says - TOP ANSWER!!!

 

[IanM]

Now we've sorted out the Away Day, should the "end of season tour" be qualifying???

No, you're all right. I couldn't care either way, just as long as I know before I tee off!