The peasants are revolting

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I think that the reason for this is that, in every club, there are a number of players who are improving rapidly & capable of shooting 5 or more shots below their handicap. It's very hard for a Cat. 1 player to do this. This is why there is an argument for restricting entry to board competitions to 20 handicap & lower.
 

Billysboots

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This is why there is an argument for restricting entry to board competitions to 20 handicap & lower.
Hmmm. Don’t you think that’s just a bit elitist?

What about seniors, ladies playing at clubs where there are mixed competitions, newer golfers, and a whole host of others who, for a variety of reasons and often through no fault of their own, play off higher handicaps?

I have a very good friend who used to be a steady 11/12 handicap player. A couple of years ago he was diagnosed with Parkinson’s and now, whilst still an active member at his club, struggles off 23. Who’s going to be the one to tell him that, after 20+ years membership at his place, he is no longer welcome to play board competitions?
 

bobmac

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My favourite chestnut.

Low h/caps (good players) complaining about not having a chance.
They get told to go and play in scratch opens and leagues.
So they pay their £1000 subs and get told to go and play somewhere else. Brilliant.

Can you imagine someone off 28 joining a club and discovering most comps are scratch. He has no chance of winning but gets told to go and play somewhere else because they have nett comps. He has no chance of winning because he's not very good at golf.

The low h/cap guy has no chance of winning because he is a good player.

I'm a big fan of the h/cap system when it works because it allows different standards of golfer to compete on a level playing field. Sadly it doesn't always work and when good players turn up for the monthly medal and pay their entrance money, knowing that they have no chance of winning, it's a sad state of affairs, especially when they get told the solution is to go and play somewhere else.
Golf, the only sport that penalises you for being a good player
 

rulefan

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Yes hcap has gone up to 54.
Used to be 28.
But it’s not the really high ones who are winning at our place .
It’s the 15 /20 who are winning at ours, can’t say why ,it’s a mystery.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the 15/20s having the largest number in the field. It has been shown that the number of winners from a category in handicap comps is proportional to the number of players in the categories.
 

Wildboy370

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We have two + handicappers at ours, each week they are always in top 5 if not admit they had a shocker. Is it not a case at the moment the high handicap guys are getting a bigger than normal helping hand with how dry everything is, so lots run, more distance, nearer the green with shots still in bag ? At least if they have a good round they will be pulled uNader the new system and possibly quite heavily so.
Unlike the pairs comps which still harbour the journey men. Played four senior events at various courses and each one been a stack of 20 plus ( after 85% reduction ) pairs getting 48 points or more. To get in top 10 you needed 45 points. Sadly playing off 9 that ain’t possible. Thought the WHS was going to make 4bbb put both scores down and entered into system to prevent this.
? Pair we played with last time admitted it was their third comp that week..
 

IanM

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It’s the 15 /20 who are winning at ours, can’t say why ,it’s a mystery.
I think that group have a huge deviation on their range if scores, so if they have a good day, sky's the limit.

My 19 handicap buddy has broken 80, but he also struggles to break 100 when he's having a mare.
 
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I see that our Captains Day Medal was won by a 12 handicapper with a nett 7 under. Now I am not sure what that says because 12 isn’t exactly a low handicap, but neither is it a high handicap, other than to note that all the tees were right on the back plates and holes were cut in relatively easy positions. The winner said that he holed everything.

I guess the answer for my place is that for the more important board comps played on specific dayswe should be playing off the plates with tough pin positions. Of course that can’t be done for all board comps and can’t be in place for knock outs. But at least it suggests that the course can hold its own against the very higher handicap players when we‘d like it to.
 
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Tashyboy

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Yes hcap has gone up to 54.
Used to be 28.
But it’s not the really high ones who are winning at our place .
It’s the 15 /20 who are winning at ours, can’t say why ,it’s a mystery.
Tricky Trev ( hcap 15) me PP was runner up on captains day with 43 points to a guy who shot 44 playing off 27. There was a few grumbles but not from Trev. Anyway I pointed out that I won it around 2013 playing off 27 so nowts new.
When I could get a word in, I did say it probably has not helped that the WHS started when we were in the Covid and a lot of non golfers joined with high handicaps.
Another thing he was moaning about and I only half herd it. He was saying that England golf is asking that visitors from other clubs be allowed to play in board comps. I could of got that bit wrong, but it was something along those lines that brought him onto the “ cheating” bit.
 
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SILH, is there anything that has really changed from the old system to this one though. I really don’t know.
The low guys think so.

And in truth they could point at such as I. Come the Club Champs in September I can see myself playing off a CH of 12 or even 13 due to the way WHS is working for me, when last year in club champs I was off 8 and did a first round knock of net two under. Do the same this year off PH of 12 and I’ll be net 6 under. I know I am well capable of doing it, and indeed I think my golf is basically better a bit better than it was last year.
 

Lord Tyrion

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We have had one high handicapper win so far this year, handicap was cut heavily after as he only had few cards in and the score was daft. Other than that it is 12 h/c and below largely winning, single figure golfers more often than not.

I played in a 4bbb open last Sunday. Winners were off 1 and 7. Tough course, 141 slope, so maybe that helped the cream rise.

Anyway, my experience seems to differ quite a bit from others on here. In effect, nothing to see.
 
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Isn't this all the point of handicaps though? To win a nett competition, you have to play better than you did when the handicap was set. That is going to favour any competitor who has a great day by their own standards, which will be likely to include any player in a period of rapid improvement. It is much harder for a golfer who usually shoots 75 to one off shoot 65, than it is for someone who usually shoots 100 to shoot 90. Even if both players are having lessons, practice, luck. However, those higher handicap golfers are likely to be a bit less consistent, which means the lower handicap, more consistent golfer is still in with a chance.

If your sole reason for entering competitions is to win them, then you'll pick comps you think give you a chance; medals favour consistent players, Stableford give the rest of us a chance, scratch comps favour the low handicap golfer. That's fair enough.

But if you enjoy a bit of competition, playing with people you perhaps would not normally, and a chance to see if your best day can coincide with a comp, you'll throw your hat into the ring. To be honest, I really enjoy seeing other players play really well, have an outstanding round, hit great shots, and that's part of the fun for me. A mate I played with a few weeks ago had his best round ever, and it was great to see him do it, and share his buzz!
 

RichA

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In a field of 50 handicapped golfers, any individual should have a 1 in 50 chance of winning, based on their performance that day, but regardless of their HI.
Surely it's only suspicious or flawed if the same individual keeps winning and their HI doesn't change.
The anecdotal evidence on here suggests that most clubs are seeing it being shared around with the odd moaner complaining about the other lot.
Is this just another non-story?
 

The Dog.

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Am a low handicap player and play with the same. We aren’t moaning about not being able to win without shooting a personal best because that was always the case.

What has happened though is that most of us are not entering the club comps because under the new system, there is not much point. We can play a supplementary round whenever we want for handicap purposes and don’t have to pay the club for the privilege of doing so. And we can do it at a time when you can nip round quickly rather than slog it out on a slow Saturday. Consequently participation has certainly dropped. I should mention that our club gives zero recognition or nominal prize to the lowest gross in any event other than the club championship - something that I think is very poor indeed. If the lowest gross was recognised in some way, we would all enter everything.
 

Voyager EMH

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Am a low handicap player and play with the same. We aren’t moaning about not being able to win without shooting a personal best because that was always the case.

What has happened though is that most of us are not entering the club comps because under the new system, there is not much point. We can play a supplementary round whenever we want for handicap purposes and don’t have to pay the club for the privilege of doing so. And we can do it at a time when you can nip round quickly rather than slog it out on a slow Saturday. Consequently participation has certainly dropped. I should mention that our club gives zero recognition or nominal prize to the lowest gross in any event other than the club championship - something that I think is very poor indeed. If the lowest gross was recognised in some way, we would all enter everything.
At our club, lowest gross is same value (pro shop credit) as second place for all nett comps. Tell your H&C chairman this would be a way to increase entries and hence comp revenue. We have even considered a second lowest gross, was debated, never came about. But good that it was given consideration.
 

AmandaJR

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My favourite chestnut.

Low h/caps (good players) complaining about not having a chance.
They get told to go and play in scratch opens and leagues.
So they pay their £1000 subs and get told to go and play somewhere else. Brilliant.

Can you imagine someone off 28 joining a club and discovering most comps are scratch. He has no chance of winning but gets told to go and play somewhere else because they have nett comps. He has no chance of winning because he's not very good at golf.

The low h/cap guy has no chance of winning because he is a good player.

I'm a big fan of the h/cap system when it works because it allows different standards of golfer to compete on a level playing field. Sadly it doesn't always work and when good players turn up for the monthly medal and pay their entrance money, knowing that they have no chance of winning, it's a sad state of affairs, especially when they get told the solution is to go and play somewhere else.
Golf, the only sport that penalises you for being a good player
I've said before I'd scrap the handicap system full stop. Only sport I've competed at where the better I've got the tougher it gets. All this talk of participation falling if people can't win doesn't wash with me. Take a look at cycling, running, triathlon events which are always well subscribed and 90% of the field haven't a cat in hell's chance of seeing the quick ones after the gun goes.

Golf is a sport (isn't it?) - if you want to compete get better and if you want to just participate for your own enjoyment and/or personal bests then that's great.
 
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I think that group have a huge deviation on their range if scores, so if they have a good day, sky's the limit.

My 19 handicap buddy has broken 80, but he also struggles to break 100 when he's having a mare.
Not only numbers of players in that category and higher deviation of scores, but I'd probably expect these to be most impacted by Covid. Clearly enjoy game to a reasonable standard, may now be playing more rounds and practice in first half of the year as other things were closed and perhaps unaware they can card social rounds under WHS. If any handicap range is most likely to have improved then it feels like it's these players.
 

clubchamp98

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I think that group have a huge deviation on their range if scores, so if they have a good day, sky's the limit.

My 19 handicap buddy has broken 80, but he also struggles to break 100 when he's having a mare.
I also think this group of players has a good number of very good golfers who’s cap has gone up due to various reasons injury/ illness etc .
One told me he’s not trying to get down anymore as he’s enjoying his golf more .
I could be very dangerous off a double digit cap.;)
 
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