The peasants are revolting

Thread starter #1

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
13,222
After Tashyboy smashed it today we were sat having a tincture talking rammel In the 19th. Anyway if you remember i mentioned a few weeks back one of our best players at the club was moaning about the WHS system. He is off scratch and said he nigh on has to shoot a course record to have a chance of winning a board comp. I told him the according to ENGLAND golf it is a fairer system for all inc single figure players. He nearly went into meltdown.
Anyway today he mentioned that a few guys at out place have spoke to England golf and mentioned there concerns. Apparently they have been in touch with 10 local clubs and not one low handicapper/ scratch player has won any board comps. They are not happy. Apparantly England golf said “ the WHS system is fairer”. At this point I could not help but remind him that “ I told you so”. He then went onto say that weekend comps have dropped form 150 ish to 90 odd because players with low hcaps feel they don’t have a chance of winning. The club pro apparently agrees. Now this is the guy who tried stiffing me for £15 so my first thoughts are he is more concerned with losing money rather than the fairness of WHS
That said a few lads were taking no crap off him and said we all know the score before we go out what our hcap are.
Me i thought he was just bothered about scratch golfers and no one else.
But has anyone seen a drop in comp entries at the course due to the WHS.
Thoughts me dears.
 

BiMGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
1,358
We've only had one board comp and two monthly medals. The rest have been yellow and blue tee Stablefords.

In the 2 medals. A scratch player would have had shoot 62 to win. The board comp would have been 63 to win.

Div 2 of last weekends monthly medal was won with a net 59 by someone off 22. Said player had last put in a score in November 20. The score was 100 and a few similar scores before that. Then turns up in a monthly medal and shoots a gross 81. It's raised a few eyebrows.
 
Thread starter #4

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
13,222
We've only had one board comp and two monthly medals. The rest have been yellow and blue tee Stablefords.

In the 2 medals. A scratch player would have had shoot 62 to win. The board comp would have been 63 to win.

Div 2 of last weekends monthly medal was won with a net 59 by someone off 22. Said player had last put in a score in November 20. The score was 100 and a few similar scores before that. Then turns up in a monthly medal and shoots a gross 81. It's raised a few eyebrows.
Without going off on tangents, he then turned the conversation into “ cheating” as well. I will be honest I kinda turned off after 10 mins.
 

BiMGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
1,358
Thoughts - what a cry baby , I can’t win a handicap competition anymore so I’m going to cry to EG

Why doesn’t he enter scratch comps ?

How many scratch players won HC comps before Congu - not very many I’m going to guess

A 6 HC just won our second board comp
But aren't HCs supposed to level the playing field so we can all compete? What you're saying there would suggest not?

I've gone back through a few of this years comps. Only 3 have been won by a single figure player. The lowest of which is 7.
 

BiMGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
1,358
Without going off on tangents, he then turned the conversation into “ cheating” as well. I will be honest I kinda turned off after 10 mins.
I'm sure there is some cheating going on. But there always has been.

The new system of being able to put your own casual cards in makes it very easy to manipulate your HI if so inclined.
 
Thread starter #8

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
13,222
Numbers dropped from 150 to 90 because low cappers aren't entering?
That's 60 low cappers out of 150, must be a high standard of golfer at the club is all I can say. :)
Crow I sat listening to him and like I say I turned off, but he was quoting people at the club so am Not sure how truthful or exaggerated his comments were.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
25,546
Had precisely the same conversation as described in the OP this evening with the 5 handicapper I played with. He and other low handicappers don’t see there being any chance of them winning any of the main board handicap comps - all going to be won by high handicappers. Plus no point in entering a team of low handicappers in a team event - got to have at least one high guy to have a chance.

I’ll add...In the most recent board handicap comp one low guy off 4 knocked it round in level in difficult conditions - one of his best knocks for a good while. He came second to a high guy with three WHS rounds under his belt and who knocked it round in 9 under his handicap. Lets just say the low guy was ... ‘disappointed’.

This subject is certainty ‘hot’ among the low guys at my place.
 
Last edited:

Liverpoolphil

Grand Slam Winner
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Messages
36,877
Location
Leighton Buzzard
But aren't HCs supposed to level the playing field so we can all compete? What you're saying there would suggest not?

I've gone back through a few of this years comps. Only 3 have been won by a single figure player. The lowest of which is 7.
They do level it as best as it can - if everyone plays to their handicap then it’s even , just like always some days people play below and some above it. The player no doubt won a fair whack getting down to scratch and I suspect he didn’t go running to EG then

There is a lot of settling down to happen with WHS
 
Thread starter #12

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
13,222
Had precisely the same conversation as described in the OP with the 5 handicapper I played with this evening. He and other low handicappers don’t see there being any chance of them winning any of the main board handicap comps - all going to be won by high handicappers. Plus no point in entering a team of low handicappers in a team event - got to have at least one high guy to have a chance.
SILH, is there anything that has really changed from the old system to this one though. I really don’t know.
 

Swinglowandslow

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2018
Messages
1,926
We've only had one board comp and two monthly medals. The rest have been yellow and blue tee Stablefords.

In the 2 medals. A scratch player would have had shoot 62 to win. The board comp would have been 63 to win.

Div 2 of last weekends monthly medal was won with a net 59 by someone off 22. Said player had last put in a score in November 20. The score was 100 and a few similar scores before that. Then turns up in a monthly medal and shoots a gross 81. It's raised a few eyebrows.
That can happen . This week I sprayed it everywhere and swing just went.
Mid twenties points. Few weeks ago everything went right and I had over 40.
There are two sorts of high handicappers. Those who are steady, down the middle, many par 4s always being par 5s. Others, - have parred every hole on the course, but never in one round😀.
But, once in a blue moon, it nearly comes right and an extraordinary score happens...
Personally, I'd love to have a cat 1 players ability. I'd trade my handicap and occasional win , for that and no win at all.
 
Thread starter #15

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
13,222
That can happen . This week I sprayed it everywhere and swing just went.
Mid twenties points. Few weeks ago everything went right and I had over 40.
There are two sorts of high handicappers. Those who are steady, down the middle, many par 4s always being par 5s. Others, - have parred every hole on the course, but never in one round😀.
But, once in a blue moon, it nearly comes right and an extraordinary score happens...
Personally, I'd love to have a cat 1 players ability. I'd trade my handicap and occasional win , for that and no win at all.
This 👍, the guy i mentioned plays in the clubs team and they won county team comp last year or the year before Covid.
 

Oxfordcomma

Challenge Tour Pro
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Messages
772
SILH, is there anything that has really changed from the old system to this one though. I really don’t know.
Low handicappers have always complained about this one but the stats have never backed them up. Too early to say if anything has changed under WHS of course but I bet it hasn't.

3 or 4 years ago I went through all of our past comps over a few years, in response to a similar thread, and it turned out the vast majority were won by either Cat 1 or Cat 3 golfers. The occasional Cat 4 having the round of their life, but it was the Cat 2 golfers who were under-represented.

This year, we've only had 4 weekend comps at ours so far, they were won by a guy off 4 (the only board comp, rubbish weather and he was the only player in the entire field to beat handicap), friend of mine off 11, a junior off 22 and a guy off 20. Seems OK to me so far.
 

Billysboots

Challenge Tour Pro
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,657
They do level it as best as it can - if everyone plays to their handicap then it’s even , just like always some days people play below and some above it. The player no doubt won a fair whack getting down to scratch and I suspect he didn’t go running to EG then

There is a lot of settling down to happen with WHS
That one sentence sums this whole argument up for me, and there are countless examples of it at our place. Low single figure golfers who spent half a dozen years or so winning comps left, right and centre as their handicaps tumbled, and who now can’t stand seeing higher handicap players doing exactly the same. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

To the low single figure players I say this. Enjoy competing for your Club Championship. Enjoy playing scratch league matches. Enjoy representing your club in prestigious county events. Because the vast, vast majority of us will never enjoy those opportunities. But don’t then whine like two year olds when, because you have made it to the top table, an 18 handicap golfer enjoys his day in the sun and shoots 45 points in a board comp which you can’t better.

Sorry, but the attitude of some low single figure golfers to this issue really grinds my gears.
 

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
10,174
Location
Liverpool
SILH, is there anything that has really changed from the old system to this one though. I really don’t know.
Yes hcap has gone up to 54.
Used to be 28.
But it’s not the really high ones who are winning at our place .
It’s the 15 /20 who are winning at ours, can’t say why ,it’s a mystery.
 
Last edited:

Voyager EMH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
562
Location
Leicestershire
We've had 3 board comps. Not sure what the winners played off at the time, but their current HIs are 6.7, 10.3 and 19.1.
We have two players off +2, one off scratch and one off 1. They play board comps to compete for the lowest gross prize, twos sweep and simply to get scores in.
Last board comp I won the lowest gross, tied with one of the +2 chaps but beat him on the back nine.
Not aware of any bleating at my club by low-handicappers, because it is no harder or easier to win a board comp than it used to be.
There is the continuing ignorant rubbish from higher handicappers about "losing a shot in competitions with the 95%, when lower handicaps do not lose a shot". This really sickens me now.
No drop in entries.
Both +2 chaps have shot a 7-under par round in the past. Their board comps are the club champs and the scratch knockout. They never complain about the nett board comps.
 
Top