The Mental Health Thread

[PhilTheFragger]

As many of you know, I had a brush with the reaper 5 years ago, when I had a stomach polyp removed and the next day, I had a major bleed in my duodenum requiring 23 units of blood in 12 hours and then major surgery to repair the damage.

I was given a 30% chance of pulling through, compared with a 100 % chance of not making it, if they didnt operate.

Several days in Intensive care followed.

I had PTSD, which was sorted after a few months and I now consider myself as fixed as I’m going to be.

Coming to terms with your own mortality can be scary, in my case, I had no time to digest the options, in fact it was a stark, do nothing and die, or operate and have a chance.

I chose and I’m still here and life is very good, although the golf could be better, having said that, it’s a bit of a miracle that I can still play at all, let alone win a board comp 12 months ago.

In that extra time granted to me, I reinvented myself, got divorced (my choice) started a new job and a new relationship. I feel valued and loved

I now do not fear death, I have no wish to depart prematurely, but when the time comes, so be it,

Im nothing special, not a hero, just a bloke who is making the best of a bad deck of cards, but it has made me much more aware of how important our mental health is and how poorly resourced it is .

 

[Jensen]

Opinions sought.

We have a guy in one of the local golf societies who has a volcanic temper. Towering rages and arguments - last week he exploded, mega exploded and flipped a table of drinks over because someone disagreed with him about the state of the greens. In terms of either friends or couples dropping him and his wife because of the frightening outbursts, there is a growing list. And every time someone drops him, or he drops them, he plays the victim card. His wife has a couple of friends she’s shared her concerns with, and it’s absolutely open mouthed shocking. I genuinely can’t paint the picture dark enough. As different (now) ex-friends spill their stories we see a litany of frightening situations.

Half jokingly, yesterday, I said I expect he’ll be on crime watch as an axe murderer. The reply gave me the shivers. He’d put his brother in hospital last November. I relayed the story to Mrs Hobbit, and she replied it was the 2nd time in 18 months.

On the one hand I feel the guy needs support/medical help. On the other hand I feel the guy is a real danger to those who are ever in his company. Do we use the next explosion to boot him out of the society, or do we try and manage him sympathetically. The consensus appears to be get rid before something catastrophic happens. His wife wants us to manage him sympathetically, just nod and carry on. I almost agree with her but, equally, I have very deep concerns for the safety of the society members.

Your thoughts would be most welcome…

The guy clearly needs help, both professional and socially.
Certainly socially, you don’t mention whether he drinks alcohol. Alcohol is very dangerous, it adds fuel to the fire making things look worse and clouds judgement. Approaching him in a group would be better as this presents a clear message and would give you physical reassurance too.
Unless he admits that he has a problem and wants help, then it’s really an uphill battle.
Good luck

 

[Voyager EMH]

I’ve been coming back to this thread regularly to read all the comments about the chap with the violent outbursts.

I spent many years working in a prison with lots of chaps with these tendencies and behaviours. The amount of verbal abuse directed at me was phenomenal. Yet I went back day after day and year after year. I was not employed by the prison service. I was employed by a college of further education and worked in the education department of a prison.

The antisocial behaviours and tendencies are symptoms. Treating symptoms is not a cure. Establishing what caused the chap’s brain to be wired this way is not an exact science either.

I want you to imagine yourself as a 7 year old boy. You are coming home from school. You have a strange sense of uncertainty. Will your mum be able to move her arm properly and make you a sandwich? Yesterday she had sprained her wrist. Will your dad be home from work at a reasonable hour and spend some time with you, or will he be late and very tired and go straight to bed?

As the years go by you come to realise that other children do not live in a relentless state of uncertainties and with no happiness at home. You feel powerless. You know things are not right, but there is nothing you can do to make them right. So you start wanting.

Wanting with all your heart for things to be the way you want them to be. Your brain becomes hard-wired in this way-of-thinking and dominates your thoughts on all aspects of life. Things not being how you want them to be causes you immense turmoil. Even what appear to be trivial things to other people are of great concern to you if they are “not right” and you can get very angry about these things.

As an adult you try to create a life with no uncertainties. You find it exhausting trying to get everything and everyone around you to be just how you want them to be. You live in a constant state of anguish looking out for anything that might happen that is out of kilter with “world according to me.”

Does any of the above sound familiar with anyone you know who has antisocial outbursts? So what can be done for such a person?
There is no quick fix – of that I am 100% certain.

What I have seen have a profound effect on a group of men with antisocial behavioural disorders, is one prisoner open up and describe his early life in far more excruciating detail than that short vague description above. This can be a start to a change for himself and for those listening who are thinking, “…that’s me.”

And for the rest of us? We could have been that unfortunate boy? Would our behaviour be all our own fault? Can we accept that this adult is not entirely to blame for his behaviour and that he can be helped to change? How much time and money is it worth spending in helping such people? Who is going to do it and how will they be paid?

Another thing I am absolutely sure of. It is so very easy and cheap to give up on them as being simply no good.
And you aint gonna change them by telling them to change.

 

[Orikoru]

Going back to the earlier discussions about being diagnosed with things later in life (ADHD, forms of autism, etc). I've long thought there might be something like that for me. I've noticed my brain just switches itself off when I'm not interested in something, and lately it's gotten worse. My wife is getting frustrated because I don't remember full conversations that we had only yesterday, because my brain wasn't switched on for it. She finds it amazing that she can have a full conversation with someone on the phone, right next to me, at the end she asks if I heard that and I'll say no not at all - completely switched myself off and didn't hear any of it. I've always lacked empathy for things that other people are going through when they don't directly affect me as well. I never message my friends to ask what's going on with them or how they're doing. It's like I just don't care about very many things - but if you said you don't care about someone, it can be misinterpreted as disliking them, but that's not right at all in my case. I'm sure I care about my friends in my heart, but my brain just doesn't. Even going all the way to my latter school years, I was supposed to be one of the most intelligent in my year group and predicted to get the best grades, but I could never motivate myself to see that through - none of it interested me so I just couldn't function with it. Trying to revise for exams involved me reading whole pages but then realising all I did was look at the words and my brain took none of it in, so I'd just give up and wing it. Passed all my GCSEs but A levels were useless and I never went to university in the end. This has carried on to my worklife where I do a job that I'm very capable of doing - I've now been doing pretty much the same thing for 11 years because I've not pushed myself to do anything more.

I was discussing this with my wife yesterday, and she echoed some of the same thoughts for herself. She showed me an Instagram account run by a lady with ADHD, who has countless videos showing every day things that are caused by it. And it was amazing how similar this woman was to my wife! Almost every video I was like "that's you! that's you as well! you do that!" Everything from; having no concept of time (i.e. she thinks everything takes just '5 minutes' and is always late); demanding a clean environment but simultaneously leaving your stuff everywhere; not being able to make simple decisions; and so many more. I was in shock and little bit blown away by it. I did have a laugh at her for making it all about her but still. It showed me that so many people potentially dealing with things that even they don't know about let alone you. It didn't help me much since I only related to about 20% of it. Gave me food for thought about how to deal with my wife and her shoddy timekeeping.

 

[Tashyboy]

Went away for A couple of weeks in March for my 60th. It couldn’t have come at a better time. Been back since Sunday and I am ready for another. Fortunately am off to mablethorpe with the grandkids for six day on Monday.

Missis T has spent and hour on the phone this morning talking to family about her dads dementia. Social services are useless and it is coming to a head. Missis T is close to blowing a fuse. She don’t know yet my Bro wants to talk to her about his finger up the jacksy test results for his prostate. She is still on the phone.
Thens there’s me dads dementia, that’s another story.
Not even touched the subject of me daughter who found out her partner was cheating on him. She has booted him out and dropped off his clothes at the cop shop he is stationed at. The grandkids are devastated as is she. She drove to Birmingham to sell the Boxer dog as she could not look after him on her own. It was his dog but he couldn’t take it. I found out about this on me 60th family do. That was a fun night. At the moment me and Missis T are being pulled in every direction possible Just being there for everyone else. It’s not a medical term But “ me heads a shed”. Always good to talk.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Went away for A couple of weeks in March for my 60th. It couldn’t have come at a better time. Been back since Sunday and I am ready for another. Fortunately am off to mablethorpe with the grandkids for six day on Monday.

Missis T has spent and hour on the phone this morning talking to family about her dads dementia. Social services are useless and it is coming to a head. Missis T is close to blowing a fuse. She don’t know yet my Bro wants to talk to her about his finger up the jacksy test results for his prostate. She is still on the phone.
Thens there’s me dads dementia, that’s another story.
Not even touched the subject of me daughter who found out her partner was cheating on him. She has booted him out and dropped off his clothes at the cop shop he is stationed at. The grandkids are devastated as is she. She drove to Birmingham to sell the Boxer dog as she could not look after him on her own. It was his dog but he couldn’t take it. I found out about this on me 60th family do. That was a fun night. At the moment me and Missis T are being pulled in every direction possible Just being there for everyone else. It’s not a medical term But “ me heads a shed”. Always good to talk.

No wonder you keep having holidays, you need them. Trying times, one thing after another.

 

[Tashyboy]

No wonder you keep having holidays, you need them. Trying times, one thing after another.

Be nice to see some light at the end of the tunnel but at the moment there isn’t. The hols we went on were a cruise, talking to people our age and our parents age ( the ship was like a floating nursing home) There's loads of people with different problems to deal with. Whether that be their own or their families. Sometimes just talking rammel helps offload the load a little.
missis T for my 60th has arranged one thing for me every month this year.
Jan, ice hockey.
Feb, concert in Sheffield Cathedral doing Coldplay.
March, Motown night.
April, blind wine tasting night with family and friend. That’s this Saturday. That will be an offloading night

 

[HampshireHog]

Going back to the earlier discussions about being diagnosed with things later in life (ADHD, forms of autism, etc). I've long thought there might be something like that for me. I've noticed my brain just switches itself off when I'm not interested in something, and lately it's gotten worse. My wife is getting frustrated because I don't remember full conversations that we had only yesterday, because my brain wasn't switched on for it. She finds it amazing that she can have a full conversation with someone on the phone, right next to me, at the end she asks if I heard that and I'll say no not at all - completely switched myself off and didn't hear any of it. I've always lacked empathy for things that other people are going through when they don't directly affect me as well. I never message my friends to ask what's going on with them or how they're doing. It's like I just don't care about very many things - but if you said you don't care about someone, it can be misinterpreted as disliking them, but that's not right at all in my case. I'm sure I care about my friends in my heart, but my brain just doesn't. Even going all the way to my latter school years, I was supposed to be one of the most intelligent in my year group and predicted to get the best grades, but I could never motivate myself to see that through - none of it interested me so I just couldn't function with it. Trying to revise for exams involved me reading whole pages but then realising all I did was look at the words and my brain took none of it in, so I'd just give up and wing it. Passed all my GCSEs but A levels were useless and I never went to university in the end. This has carried on to my worklife where I do a job that I'm very capable of doing - I've now been doing pretty much the same thing for 11 years because I've not pushed myself to do anything more.

I was discussing this with my wife yesterday, and she echoed some of the same thoughts for herself. She showed me an Instagram account run by a lady with ADHD, who has countless videos showing every day things that are caused by it. And it was amazing how similar this woman was to my wife! Almost every video I was like "that's you! that's you as well! you do that!" Everything from; having no concept of time (i.e. she thinks everything takes just '5 minutes' and is always late); demanding a clean environment but simultaneously leaving your stuff everywhere; not being able to make simple decisions; and so many more. I was in shock and little bit blown away by it. I did have a laugh at her for making it all about her but still. It showed me that so many people potentially dealing with things that even they don't know about let alone you. It didn't help me much since I only related to about 20% of it. Gave me food for thought about how to deal with my wife and her shoddy timekeeping.

I‘m parent of two lads with autism diagnosis both having it manifest in different ways, the elder no concentration and loud the younger withdrawn but tunnel focussed. My point is that autism is so broad I think if you look for it in yourself and don’t see any traits you are probably kidding yourself.

BTW filtering out the wife talking is a life skill.

 

[Tashyboy]

Just a quick update from yesterday.

My brother rang me as soon as got in the 19th today. Confirmed he has Prostate cancer. The other day he was of the frame of mind “ it is what it is and I will just crack on”. Today he has had the diagnosis and it has knocked him for six. Had half an hour on the phone with him. Ironically Missis T told me re yesterday the process he will go through depending on his level of cancer. She was unfortunately on the nail.
I didn’t mention yesterday that as soon as I got in the 19th on Tuesday I had a txt off the foster parent for the daughter we adopted. They had fostered then adopted triplets. They’re now 26 yrs old. One of them a girl was murdered by her husband and her body dismembered. I received the txt and thought it was spam knocked me and Missis T for six.
Its odd but our fuddle is the best Five quids counselling I spend per round coz at the moment I must sound like a right moaning old sod on the course.

Good to talk guys.

 

[Newtonuti]

Just a quick update from yesterday.

My brother rang me as soon as got in the 19th today. Confirmed he has Prostate cancer. The other day he was of the frame of mind “ it is what it is and I will just crack on”. Today he has had the diagnosis and it has knocked him for six. Had half an hour on the phone with him. Ironically Missis T told me re yesterday the process he will go through depending on his level of cancer. She was unfortunately on the nail.
I didn’t mention yesterday that as soon as I got in the 19th on Tuesday I had a txt off the foster parent for the daughter we adopted. They had fostered then adopted triplets. They’re now 26 yrs old. One of them a girl was murdered by her husband and her body dismembered. I received the txt and thought it was spam knocked me and Missis T for six.
Its odd but our fuddle is the best Five quids counselling I spend per round coz at the moment I must sound like a right moaning old sod on the course.

Good to talk guys.

Bloody hell mate, if you find everything getting on top of you, please for the love of god speak to your gp about help with counselling etc. My mrs massively struggled after her dad passed away, to the point where it nearly split us up and I basically frog marched her down there. That was four years ago and she still goes once a month, but it's helped so much just having somebody who isn't a friend or family member, to talk things over with.

 

[Tashyboy]

Bloody hell mate, if you find everything getting on top of you, please for the love of god speak to your gp about help with counselling etc. My mrs massively struggled after her dad passed away, to the point where it nearly split us up and I basically frog marched her down there. That was four years ago and she still goes once a month, but it's helped so much just having somebody who isn't a friend or family member, to talk things over with.

Went out last night with four of the lads from the pit. Initially I was driving so a quiet night was planned. As I am walking out of the door my lad said he would take me. Five pints later ( which is a skin full for me). The world is a better place. Laughing and joking, taking the Micky. It was a good night recharging the batteries.

 

[Hobbit]

Many thanks for all the replies. In short, he was sectioned a number of years ago. I feel he is out in society when with a better system he should be somewhere being treated. Care in the community at its worst.

With ref to the comment about his wife, I am aware of issues around abuse in the past and also neglect. She (allegedly) fell May last year and broke both arms. Severe bruising to to her face and legs. Maybe she did fall but he refused to take her to a single hospital/physio appointment through the 20 weeks she was incapacitated. The year before it was a broken ankle, and the year before it was a broken wrist. And there’s a lot more I could add, including she has to make a video call to him to show him where she is and who she is with.

The organiser is meeting with him this evening, and with support, to give him a final warning.

Just a short update. He’s not played since. We’re all horrible people, and he’s being victimised.

However, there has been another incident. Whilst out in company he‘d had a few drinks and en route to the next bar he stumbled. One of the wives in the group put her hand on his arm and asked if he was ok. Cue explosion. He squared up to this timid old lady, f-ing & jef-ing. One of the guys, also well over 6 feet stepped between them.

A few days later the wife of Mr Angry met with the old lady who’d been on the receiving end, we thought to apologise. “My Fred(name change) couldn’t possibly have behaved like that…”

Thankfully, mostly out of sight, out of mind but….what next?

 

[Imurg]

Remember to put down the glass...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654552791367692288

 

[Tashyboy]

Remember to put down the glass...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654552791367692288

Post of the day you win a sleeve of top flights.

 

[Hobbit]

Opinions sought.

We have a guy in one of the local golf societies who has a volcanic temper. Towering rages and arguments - last week he exploded, mega exploded and flipped a table of drinks over because someone disagreed with him about the state of the greens. In terms of either friends or couples dropping him and his wife because of the frightening outbursts, there is a growing list. And every time someone drops him, or he drops them, he plays the victim card. His wife has a couple of friends she’s shared her concerns with, and it’s absolutely open mouthed shocking. I genuinely can’t paint the picture dark enough. As different (now) ex-friends spill their stories we see a litany of frightening situations.

Half jokingly, yesterday, I said I expect he’ll be on crime watch as an axe murderer. The reply gave me the shivers. He’d put his brother in hospital last November. I relayed the story to Mrs Hobbit, and she replied it was the 2nd time in 18 months.

On the one hand I feel the guy needs support/medical help. On the other hand I feel the guy is a real danger to those who are ever in his company. Do we use the next explosion to boot him out of the society, or do we try and manage him sympathetically. The consensus appears to be get rid before something catastrophic happens. His wife wants us to manage him sympathetically, just nod and carry on. I almost agree with her but, equally, I have very deep concerns for the safety of the society members.

Your thoughts would be most welcome…

Many thanks to those that responded previously. An update with a twist.

Mrs Hobbit and I became his latest target a couple of months back. Short version, it’s been horrendous. A few bits to be sorted but he’s now looking at 30 days in prison. It’s a desperately sad situation, and I do feel for him, I think, but he needs a sentence inside to give everyone a break. Quite what happens after that…

 

[Voyager EMH]

Many thanks to those that responded previously. An update with a twist.

Mrs Hobbit and I became his latest target a couple of months back. Short version, it’s been horrendous. A few bits to be sorted but he’s now looking at 30 days in prison. It’s a desperately sad situation, and I do feel for him, I think, but he needs a sentence inside to give everyone a break. Quite what happens after that…

With a short sentence, I don't think his behaviour and thinking will change.
Any outbursts will be given short shrift by prison staff. No attempt at understanding or changing his thinking and behaviour will be attempted.
If he meets other inmates with these same behaviours, then he may align himself with these people and feel that his actions that put him in prison were justified (to him).

This may sound cynical and negative, but it is what I feel is the reality of prison based on years of observation.

 

[Robster59]

With a short sentence, I don't think his behaviour and thinking will change.
Any outbursts will be given short shrift by prison staff. No attempt at understanding or changing his thinking and behaviour will be attempted.
If he meets other inmates with these same behaviours, then he may align himself with these people and feel that his actions that put him in prison were justified (to him).

This may sound cynical and negative, but it is what I feel is the reality of prison based on years of observation.

I would tend to agree. Unless he actually gets some counselling in the prison, then I can't see him changing. From what I have read above, he is never in the wrong no matter what he does, and it also sounds like his wife is not helping either. Although with her it could be fear and/or denial.
It is obviously a mental thing which needs addressing. He seems to work on "I'm right, you're wrong and the whole world is against me" kind of mentality. He's also a bully, a control freak and a manipulator. All in all, sounds like a nasty piece of work.]
The worry is that one day his wife will become a statistic.

 

[Robster59]

I think it's quite normal to live beyond your parents. I've outlived my father by 26 years now and he died at 59. My Father smoked heavely and had a hard time through WW2.

My mum passed away last year at 98, my Dad at 92. If this is true then I look forward to the card from the King/Queen (insert Monarch of choice).

 

[Voyager EMH]

I would tend to agree. Unless he actually gets some counselling in the prison, then I can't see him changing. From what I have read above, he is never in the wrong no matter what he does, and it also sounds like his wife is not helping either. Although with her it could be fear and/or denial.
It is obviously a mental thing which needs addressing. He seems to work on "I'm right, you're wrong and the whole world is against me" kind of mentality. He's also a bully, a control freak and a manipulator. All in all, sounds like a nasty piece of work.]
The worry is that one day his wife will become a statistic.

And here lies another problem - funding and cost.
"Counselling" and "rehabilitation" requires some expertise and people to do it.
The idea of spending of extra tax-payers money beyond mere incarceration is not a popular one.
Persuading prisoners to involve themselves in such programs is also very tricky. Imposing it upon them does not work and is in fact an impossibility.

Anything involving the word "counselling" will often be rejected as it can be looked upon as a weakness to admit to it.
"Anger management programme" was tried in several UK prisons with very varying degrees of success in terms of participation. Some even thought it might be a way of channelling anger in a more efficient way to make you a better fighter.

We did try, "Advanced thinking skills". Introduced topics on mediation, calmness under pressure, yoga etc before addressing those underlying issues that cause antisocial and violent behaviours.
But this type of stuff is the first thing to be cut to make "savings" and it is very difficult to quantify success.

The unwritten prison mantra has been sadly described as, "Cheap is good - cheaper is better."

 

[Mudball]

As middle aged men with families,... how much is the current economy and outlook making you worried? There is the cost of living thing which affects day to day, but when mortgage starts gettign impacted, then you think of losing your house - not just skipping a meal or not putting the heater on. The job situation is ok for now, but I think most men would worry about it. Like this morning, I woke up at about 3... and just lay in bed think of 'what will happen if.....'.. drove me nuts. I dont we think we (men) speak much about it. Cant post anything here these days, because it gets flagged as 'politcal' (and fair enough).... Currently feels like batting on a tricky wicket..