PJ87
Journeyman Pro
If I hold your shirt and your fast yes force is same
But if I apply a forceful tug at the same time force is increased no?
If I hold your shirt and your fast yes force is same
But if I apply a forceful tug at the same time force is increased no?
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Saka through 35 yr old isn’t catching him.
That’s a goal scoring opportunity and he kept the ball in that’s why he fouled him.
Your right seen lots of reds for excessive force this year.
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 12,999
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
Not a red card as said above.
Not sure how getting to a final and losing on pens is a failure. I backed Italy at a decent price 2 weeks before the tournament...they were always going to be tough, they hadn't conceded or lost in ages. (30 games undefeated)
Southgate's pragmatism got us to a final.... A manager can learn and grow in a job too. Decent job done.
Losing on pens in a final is a failure then? I guess that's a relative appraisal!
Not sure how getting to a final and losing on pens is a failure. I backed Italy at a decent price 2 weeks before the tournament...they were always going to be tough, they hadn't conceded or lost in ages. (30 games undefeated)
Southgate's pragmatism got us to a final.... A manager can learn and grow in a job too. Decent job done.
Losing on pens in a final is a failure then? I guess that's a relative appraisal!
GB72
Money List Winner
OK, if it was not for the fact that we are talking about the national team, the England job would actually seem perferct experience for a young, up and coming manager. You get expereince at the top level without the add on worries of budgets, recruitment or answering to a board. Your perfmance is not being jusdged every week and you do not face the sack every few monhts. If you want to experiment with tactics, you can change the whole squad if you want rather than having to retrain or recruit. For most qualifying campaigns (unless you are unlucky) you are only going to have a couple of games that are a significant challenge and so the only real stress if the performance in tournaments. May be one of the few ways of getting a decent job in the premier league without already being a big name coach. Actually sounds the perfect job for someone at the beginning of their career or looking to wind down.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Being a top player doesn’t automatically mean being a top manager
There have been many players in the past that have just not been able to replicate that into management.
Unfortunately England aren’t blessed with many top class successful managers - Lampard did well when expectations were low but then struggled - Tuchel came and got the same players winning the CL. You could say the same for Gerrard - he is winning things for Rangers but is it at the highest level ?
Southgate is a great man manager but his tactics mirror his way of thinking as a player and he displayed those same tactics at the only top level job he had with Middlesbrough
Imagine what the likes of Mancini , Enrique, Pep , Klopp would have done with that squad of England players
England achievements should be applauded - they reached the final , but to make that next step up to win they need a manager who can changes things
Edit - never a red card against Chellini - it’s a shirt pull on the halfway line , Jorginho tackle could have been
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Golden goal in extra time.
They have used it before and it was great.
At least it takes out the pens if someone scores.
larmen
Head Pro
Yes it is. Can we say it’s a tug for certain? Can we measure how forceful a tug is? What force equals which colour card?
What I can’t find is a wide shot from the time. I would like to know if there were defenders in the middle or if he was through.
I don’t care if on paper there were slower or faster, just if a defender was closer to the goal or not.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
It's really not though I'm afraid .. there are other people who could get round and cover at that distance ..
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
There was two covering defenders in the middle who could get back also if saka got on his bike.
He just didnt get the opportunity.
He just didnt get the opportunity.
larmen
Head Pro
Didn’t it make it worse because there is no margin for error?
I only remember a single goal in 96, Bierhof in the final. Everything else was don’t concede, can’t correct it anymore.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
That might be true but they would just be a year older sitting on the bench when tactics dictate something needed changing.
But the same manager who won’t deploy them is the problem
Having now slept on it, my overall feeling this morning is the same as that I harboured after the first couple of games - one of frustration.
The worst thing England could have done last night was score early, because it allowed Southgate to revert to type. From the early goal we needed to press for another, and we had the opportunity to do so, especially down Italy’s left flank where Trippier was finding acres of space. And for 20 minutes it looked like we might sneak another.
But we allowed Italy to settle into a rhythm. We dropped deeper and deeper, seemed content to concede possession and allowed Italy to see if they could unlock our defence. On the increasingly rare occasions we got forward there was no outlet, and we depressingly reverted to knocking the ball long to nobody in particular.
When half time arrived the BBC pundits all seemed to applaud the first half performance and I genuinely questioned whether they had been watching the same game. We urgently needed to up the tempo and I hoped that half time might give us the opportunity to regroup.
But the second half was largely even worse, punctuated by Pickford knocking it long, generally straight to Italy’s keeper, and England being wasteful in possession all over the pitch. Mount was anonymous, Sterling had absolutely no end product, and Southgate seemed unwilling or unable to change things, leaving his substitutions way, way too late and then, it seems, only with penalties in mind.
I was criticised early in this tournament for not understanding tournament football, and for calling for a more expansive and entertaining approach from England. Whilst I became increasingly encouraged by the results, if not the performances, I’m afraid I sit here this morning and feel that if England had adopted the expansive and entertaining approach I crave, and which our players are capable of, Italy were there for the taking.
A huge wasted opportunity in my view, and I suspect pundits in countries such as Germany and Spain must be asking themselves why we persevere with a manager so intent on wasting the talent he has available to him.
The worst thing England could have done last night was score early, because it allowed Southgate to revert to type. From the early goal we needed to press for another, and we had the opportunity to do so, especially down Italy’s left flank where Trippier was finding acres of space. And for 20 minutes it looked like we might sneak another.
But we allowed Italy to settle into a rhythm. We dropped deeper and deeper, seemed content to concede possession and allowed Italy to see if they could unlock our defence. On the increasingly rare occasions we got forward there was no outlet, and we depressingly reverted to knocking the ball long to nobody in particular.
When half time arrived the BBC pundits all seemed to applaud the first half performance and I genuinely questioned whether they had been watching the same game. We urgently needed to up the tempo and I hoped that half time might give us the opportunity to regroup.
But the second half was largely even worse, punctuated by Pickford knocking it long, generally straight to Italy’s keeper, and England being wasteful in possession all over the pitch. Mount was anonymous, Sterling had absolutely no end product, and Southgate seemed unwilling or unable to change things, leaving his substitutions way, way too late and then, it seems, only with penalties in mind.
I was criticised early in this tournament for not understanding tournament football, and for calling for a more expansive and entertaining approach from England. Whilst I became increasingly encouraged by the results, if not the performances, I’m afraid I sit here this morning and feel that if England had adopted the expansive and entertaining approach I crave, and which our players are capable of, Italy were there for the taking.
A huge wasted opportunity in my view, and I suspect pundits in countries such as Germany and Spain must be asking themselves why we persevere with a manager so intent on wasting the talent he has available to him.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Do you really think they were catching him.
?
I don’t !
That’s why it was a red imo.
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
So we should sack the most successful England manager since 1966, who has just lead a team to the final of a major tournament. A tournament at which the team he was leading didn't lose a game.
And make Lampard the manager?
I've seen some nonsense posted in this thread. Buy, that is top of the pile.
How good he was as a player is completely irrelevant (Gerrard was better anyway). Lampard has absolutely no credibility as a manager. None.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
I don’t like Southgate, but you have to give him credit for what he’s achieved with England.
We actually can go to the next World Cup with a realistic chance to do well and compete against the best, all the top teams in the World would probably prefer to avoid us as well.
Yes his tactics are questionable to some of us at times, but you can’t deny what he’s done.
As for who would replace him or do a better job etc, we have no idea, these top Club managers get to buy their squad, very few develop youth players, they get lucky with one or two coming through, so to simply say they’d get more out of that squad, they may not even pick the same squad.
Let’s get behind him, accept not a great deal will change, but we will have a few more players pushing in to the squad and who knows who may drop out.
We actually can go to the next World Cup with a realistic chance to do well and compete against the best, all the top teams in the World would probably prefer to avoid us as well.
Yes his tactics are questionable to some of us at times, but you can’t deny what he’s done.
As for who would replace him or do a better job etc, we have no idea, these top Club managers get to buy their squad, very few develop youth players, they get lucky with one or two coming through, so to simply say they’d get more out of that squad, they may not even pick the same squad.
Let’s get behind him, accept not a great deal will change, but we will have a few more players pushing in to the squad and who knows who may drop out.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Trezegue in the World Cup wasn’t it as well??
That’s down to tactics. I am sure a forward thinking manager would try and win it.
But we would need one of them first.
I would rather lose trying to win the game than lose like that last night.
The Italian penalties were not that good ours were just worse.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Totally agree with all this.
I would rather lose trying to win a game than lose like that.
I would also add Kane how bad does he have to be to be taken off ,
The two Italian CBs were pointed out as their weak link but they could have brought their deck chairs out second half.
Whereditgo
Journeyman Pro
For all my criticisms of Southgates tactical failings, I don't think he should be replaced. He does have a lot of good qualities, his man management skills with a young inexperienced squad, his dealings with the media etc. He needs to strengthen his backroom staff though, have someone in there who is more tactically savvy.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Gerrard it is then
I think he’s the next Liverpool manager.
Thing is who replaces Southgate
And is actually not winning anything regarded as success .? It’s progress maybe!
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Exactly that… different game from that point on and not enough is being made of it !! We have been told we are are bunch of cheats which is a disgrace so I would like to highlight 1 yellow last night for England and at least 5 for Italy , 2 of which should have been straight reds .. there has been a sign of weakness by not making these sendings off. All it has done is promoted cynical football and Italian side were good enough not to conduct themselves in this manner, but the ref let them and he should be asked to justify his decision.
