The Footie Thread

[RichA]

You think them going to ten men would not change the outcome?
That’s what a cautious manager waits for .
A reason to change because they are weakened probably by sacrificing a forward to shore up the defence.

I think that in various parallel universes, where the Italians were down to 10, 9 or 8 men, we still wouldn't get close to scoring an extra time winner as long as we kept trying to run through the middle of their defence. If we'd used any of our multitude of wingers and wingbacks properly and whipped the occasional cross to the far or near post, we might not have needed extra time.

 

[sweaty sock]

I have to say Southgate needs to go.

To think hes had all his life in football, nearly 20 years at the top level, has played for his country 57 times, scoring twice, and has now had 15 years of management experience. All at the top national or international level. In addition hes worked with this very group of players from the very start of their careers - may infact be an influence in their personal success.

Even with all that he still isnt as tactically nuanced or as aware of his players abilities, as a group of average golfers with football as a second sport, no playing or managing experience, nor a single minute working with any of the team.

If thats not damning then I dont know what is.

 

[harpo_72]

I don’t think it was a defensive set up it is a misnomer to think we had 5 at the back. We played 3 at the back and 2 wing backs who were doing the business. Italy reacted by putting on wider attacking players to impact are narrow 3 man defence and draw trippier and shaw back .. it worked they also increased their offensive midfield to counter the weakened central strike force they had.
Now there are options to deal with that and that is to move to a 4 in defence and put a cdm in place and pull Sterling wider and mount wider ( although I think central is more his position-I could be wrong because I don’t support a football team .. watching is for those who can’t was my rule, now I can’t so I have to watch). But he had players on the pitch that he could have just shuffled he could have pulled Shaw up and pushed Sterling to the other wing and kept Mount central . Rice and Phillips stay as cdms and mount links them to Kane Sterling and shaw … and then you see if that counters the Italian progress .. which it will and then they look to break you down again.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Fine words from Southgate in his press conference just done. Admitting and taking full responsibility for mistakes made - including taking responsibility for those things in practice completely out of his control such as the penalty misses - because as manager he accepts the plaudits when the team plays well and wins, so must he take personal responsibility for when things do not turn out as hoped. That is leadership - good on you Gareth Southgate - a decent and honourable Englishman.

I can recognise Southgate as an Englishman all English can be very proud of - so don‘t pick holes in every decision he made - you can trust that he will do that himself - and he will learn from them and try very hard to not repeat the same mistakes.

Now - Steve Clarke and Scotland…Jason Kerr ? please ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I disagree

Someone pulling a players shirt on the halfway line is not a red card - never has been and never will be.

Let's put this into perspective.

This England team is world away from what I've seen over the last 30 years or so. All I've seen previously is an inability to hold on to the ball, lump aimless balls up front to big striker. Rinse, repeat. And then we get knocked out early in the tournament. Who remembers that Iceland performance? The names we've had playing for England over the years. Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Terry, etc.; the so-called Golden Generation that did sweet FA. Forward to now, we are a team that can pass the ball around and starting to show that we can play in tight spaces and handle high pressure. It's not there yet at the Italian level, but not far off.

We are a growing and evolving team. The last two tournaments have been very successful and this team is better than the Russia 2018 team. Comparing Italy and England, this Italian team is at its peak where as we are a bit behind, but improving. They show excellent technical ability and great fluidity and mobility around the park. Remember, Italy didn't even qualify for the last World Cup and since then they have been immense. We should afford Gareth the time to continually improve us in time for the Qatar World Cup; and this is where Gareth is at a crossroads right now. To improve, he has to alter his tactics so that we are more dynamic in the centre of the park, utilising the Fodens and Grealishs of this world. italy showed what is needed. Get the ball players playing football in the centre of the park., with pace, mobility and technical ability. It's this alteration that will mean we could peak in time for the World Cup. If Gareth chooses the same current tactical path, we won't do well in Qatar, simple as that.

Hopefully Gareth will also learn to be more proactive rather than reactive. At half-term, Klinsmann (World and Euros winner so knows what it takes to win) was asked something like, "What do England need to do in the second half?". His response was, "Don't sit back and invite pressure, continue what you are doing and look for the second goal". Unfortunately we did the former. Mancini altered tactics and Gareth took too long to react to them.

It can be so easy to over criticise. Let's not forget, we didn't lose a game and lost the final on a lottery. Home advantage helped, as it did for Italy in the group stages. I'm as positive as I have been for a long time with this team and will continue to back Gareth as long as alters his style in preparation for the next World Cup.

The level the team have reached is a very good achievement but i also think there does need to ensure it doesnt mask some issues

England have all the ability in the world , the squad is on par with the best teams in the world -

They reached the Semi final - beating teams they should beat which in itself was an improvement on the previous tournaments - they faced two strong sides Belguim and Croatia and lost to both of them

In the Euros - they again beat the teams they should have beaten - faced a tricky game against Scotland where they played within themselves , when they faced stronger team in Germany they found an answer even if Germany were way off the pace , and they managed to get past some tricky games against Denmark- but when they faced the on form strong side they seemed to be caught in the headlights - especially after half time

Onto the next World Cup the question will be if they learn from that , if Southgate can adapt his thinking and tactics to find a way to get past the likes of Italy , France , Argentina Brazil etc then England will have a brilliant chance to win the WC

The prob is I’m not sure of Southgate has that ability - harsh on a manager who has done so well

 

[Piece]

I see Savills are looking for a new commercial manager today after their previous one decided to voice his opinion on the missed penalties.

Yeah, saw that. No words really.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

people will be calling for a red card for that

And they’d be just as wrong.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I have to say Southgate needs to go.

To think hes had all his life in football, nearly 20 years at the top level, has played for his country 57 times, scoring twice, and has now had 15 years of management experience. All at the top national or international level. In addition hes worked with this very group of players from the very start of their careers - may infact be an influence in their personal success.

Even with all that he still isnt as tactically nuanced or as aware of his players abilities, as a group of average golfers with football as a second sport, no playing or managing experience, nor a single minute working with any of the team.

If thats not damning then I dont know what is.

Maybe send The FA your CV?

 

[Pin-seeker]

That might be true but they would just be a year older sitting on the bench when tactics dictate something needed changing.
But the same manager who won’t deploy them is the problem

Yeah maybe.

 

[larmen]

I see Savills are looking for a new commercial manager today after their previous one decided to voice his opinion on the missed penalties.

There is going to be an investigation, and Savills have already said so.

What I don’t get is that ‘everyone’ is now tweeting Savills, and a lot of them demanding he is being fired already.
There is going to be a process that needs to be followed, let them do it. The person doing the investigation isn’t done with it at 9 am on the Monday.

 

[sweaty sock]

Maybe send The FA your CV?

Im clearly well behind most of the 'supporters' in here, wouldnt get a look in.

Surely a final, and a tournament where you are unbeaten in any 90 minutes, with a side full of youngsters is a glorious position to be in? But no, sack the hopeless manager who got us here...

 

[Dando]

I disagree

The only person who’s opinion counts said it wasn’t a red

 

[Billysboots]

I have to say Southgate needs to go.

To think hes had all his life in football, nearly 20 years at the top level, has played for his country 57 times, scoring twice, and has now had 15 years of management experience. All at the top national or international level. In addition hes worked with this very group of players from the very start of their careers - may infact be an influence in their personal success.

Even with all that he still isnt as tactically nuanced or as aware of his players abilities, as a group of average golfers with football as a second sport, no playing or managing experience, nor a single minute working with any of the team.

If thats not damning then I dont know what is.

If we’re not allowed an opinion any more this forum might as well shut down.

 

[hovis]

Can't we just accept the loss with dignity? You can show screenshots and go over dodgy decisions all day. England had a fair few go for them. Truth is we looked great for the first 15 minutes then got played off the pitch. Best side definitely won

 

[sweaty sock]

If we’re not allowed an opinion any more this forum might as well shut down.

Good point, well made....

 

[Bdill93]

Still absolutely gutted

 

[pokerjoke]

After yesterday’s very disappointing loss and the dust has now settled it’s time to reflect on what was in the grand scheme of things a very positive tournament.
A lot of doubt pre- tournament about some selections but overall some great individual performances.
Pickford for me was outstanding.
Maguire and Stones very good along with Mings in his games.
Walker and Shaw both had outstanding tournaments.
Rice and Phillips were everywhere Phillips especially surprised me.
Sterling kept us in the tournament and imo our most dangerous forward but yesterday was played on the right or down the middle, not left where imo he’s most effective.
Kane scored 3 but overall was very disappointing and yesterday did nothing for the last hour.
Saka had one storming game and the others had bit parts.
Trippier was solid enough if not dynamic but is very reliable.

Southgate and his team overall done well and certainly got them all in it together.
I hope he learns from his mistakes if he stays on because he made a lot.
He certainly has favourites but he needs to have faith in other squad members if his favourites don’t perform.
Keeping Kane on last night was criminal.
Bringing Jack on last night was right but I bet his last words to him were “ don’t get too far forward defend first”.
As others said he should have went for it and if we lost then so be it,I believe the country would have been happy with that.
I think he should stay it’s pointless changing management now, he’s got a great squad of players,but he needs to pick players he’s willing to play and with trust.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Can't we just accept the loss with dignity? You can show screenshots and go over dodgy decisions all day. England had a fair few go for them. Truth is we looked great for the first 15 minutes then got played off the pitch. Best side definitely won

Forum:
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Southgate has to take some blame for being so negative. A back 5 and 2 holding midfielders is just inviting the other team to attack. England caught Italy cold, and a 2nd goal would have killed them off. Instead they got deeper and deeper.

The obvious sub for me was Grealish for Rice. This would have got England up the park. Instead, bringing on Henderson was basically a like for like change, when it was obvious the system wasn't working.

The match stats are pretty damning, Italy 65% possession, 19 shots vs England's 6, 6 shots on target vs 2 for England.

It should have been, but there was one difference that was key for me. Jordan didnt do anything when he come on, but he was substituted for the wrong player and position.

We needed someone to take it off the keeper, centre halves or full backs to get us playing football again instead of knocking it long. IMO he should have taken Phillips off and put Jordan at the base of a diamond where he has played many times before, with Rice as the more advanced midfielder (and kept on). Instead he put Jordan too far forward, Phillips wasnt doing the job as well as he had done in the past, and should have been him substituted.

I'd have also taken Mount off after 60 minutes as ineffectual and put Sancho on, DCL in extra time. 30 minutes on, kane and Sterling stopped doing what was causing Italy trouble - making 20 yard runs back towards their own goal, creating an overload and attacking the space and moving it quickly to the wing backs. Either that or Mancini made a tactical change that I didnt see, but once that stopped working we were toast.

Overall, Pickford, Shaw, Rice and Sterling had a great tournament, one from each department, the rest in fits and starts although Stones and Maguire were a great partnership.

 

[Hobbit]

England pretty much bossed the first 25 mins but didn’t get the second goal. They were ‘saved’ by the half time whistle. 15 mins to reflect and change things. That didn’t happen, and Italy looked like the only team that would score - and did. England improved and it was 50-50 going up to full time, and maybe 60-40 to England through extra time.

The 2 red cards that didn’t happen; the studs over the ball into Grealish’s knee. Maybe not intentional but reckless. Grealish was lucky he could walk after it. A red for me.

The shirt pull; red for a shirt pull? No….. but…. A handful of the back or sleeve is one thing but a handful of collar, garrotting Saka, was very dangerous. Never mind last man or professional foul, I felt it was the garrotting part that made it dangerous, and a red.

A young kid taking the last penalty In a major final. Serious error of judgement. But only 3-2 on penalties - neither team were great, although Pickford’s last save was excellent.