The Footie Thread

[Tashyboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795127469587968498

Yeah but can you remember when Fernandinho was getting ripped to bits when he played for City coz he was dirty.
He is a fairy at the side of that lot.

 

[Tashyboy]

You honestly think Man Utd can't attract a better manager than someone that guided you to your lowest ever league position, playing the most scattergun tactics whilst having numerous bust ups with players? This is on top of spending £450m on largely rubbish? INEOS won't base it on a one off fluke game and if they do, you're in bigger trouble than first thought.

Poch has a lot to prove but it's clear to anyone that knows a thing about football he's a better manager. Has a consistent style, coaches his teams brilliantly and seldom falls out with anyone. He came into a crazy situation at Chelsea and finished above Utd. At Spurs he had his hands tied with transfers but still delivered amazing results.

Tuchel has won more but has a more abrasive nature yet is a much better manager all round.

Agree on Di Zerbi and McKenna. The former isn't all that and the latter needs a few more years to prove himself at this level.

The PL needs Man Utd to get their act together and start challenging for major trophies, not win the odd cup and be nowhere like they were in the 70's and 80's

Some of us preferred those days

 

[4LEX]

Yes it was. He was at the best team in the Netherlands at Ajax and was making those regulation saves, he then moved to Inter Milan and was making those saves. The fact that you have to go back 5 years to find a mistake that he's remembered for is evidence of that. During his one season at Inter he was voted the best keeper in the Champions League. That's a statement of fact and not a subjective opinion.

Ajax could've had a dummy in goal and still won the title in a few of those years. That was just a high profile error which cost them big time. Look back to his last 6 games for Man Utd and you'll find numerous errors there. This is the present and what he's being judged on.

He had a good CL season with Inter last season, no one can dispute that. Facts as you say.

Inter replaced him and have conceded 50% less goals, so he's hardly a big miss. That does not happen if you lose a top keeper. To use your logic, facts not subjective opinion.

As you mentioned the CL last season, his performances were surely the worst ever in CL history this season? Man Utd scored a record number of goals yet finished bottom due to his mistakes. More facts, not subjective opinions.

So we've got years of being a no mark in Holland and one good CL season for Inter. A gaffe strewn season at Utd and you think he's not a problem?

 

[Billysboots]

You honestly think Man Utd can't attract a better manager than someone that guided you to your lowest ever league position, playing the most scattergun tactics whilst having numerous bust ups with players? This is on top of spending £450m on largely rubbish? INEOS won't base it on a one off fluke game and if they do, you're in bigger trouble than first thought.

Poch has a lot to prove but it's clear to anyone that knows a thing about football he's a better manager. Has a consistent style, coaches his teams brilliantly and seldom falls out with anyone. He came into a crazy situation at Chelsea and finished above Utd. At Spurs he had his hands tied with transfers but still delivered amazing results.

Tuchel has won more but has a more abrasive nature yet is a much better manager all round.

Agree on Di Zerbi and McKenna. The former isn't all that and the latter needs a few more years to prove himself at this level.

The PL needs Man Utd to get their act together and start challenging for major trophies, not win the odd cup and be nowhere like they were in the 70's and 80's.

No, what I said was that, of the names mentioned, I wouldn’t sack ten Hag to employ any of them. And as that includes Pochettino, clearly in your opinion I know nothing about football.

These “bust ups” you refer to. Ten Hag played a blinder getting rid of Ronaldo. Sancho? Whilst I have sympathy that his career at the club never got off the ground, due in the main to Ronaldo’s arrival, the fact remains his attitude appeared questionable under three managers of very different styles. The only constant was the player who, if reports are accurate, couldn’t toe the line. And assuming you think there has been a bust up with Rashford, his attitude and body language have been appalling for months.

All three come across very strongly as the sort who don’t like to be managed, and who oppose discipline. Given that a lack of discipline has been a very obvious issue at the club for years then I’m happier having a manager who tries to impose some, than players who think they can do what they want.

Spending £450m on rubbish? In modern football it shouldn’t be for the manager to be making such decisions unchecked. That’s down to sporting/football directors, heads of recruitment and managers to have the discussion, formulate a plan, and for those above the manager to bring the right players in. The fact that ten Hag appears to have been given the keys to the safe is not his fault. So, whilst he doubtless should take some of the blame, the absence of any meaningful structure around him clearly hasn’t helped him one bit.

As regards the “rubbish”, I’ll give you Antony. He was a shocking signing at £85m. But Onana can certainly have another season at least for me. Martinez is top drawer. And you and me will never agree on Hojlund. So, not all “rubbish”. Far from it.

You seem to be under some misguided belief that United fans have suddenly had an enormous change of heart, and have done so based on 97 minutes at Wembley. I’m certainly not blind to the bilge we have been playing most of this season. I’ve moaned about it almost weekly here. But I’ve backed the manager, at least until the Coventry fiasco, and have done so for multiple reasons.

He has been the manager of a club which descended into chaos long before he arrived. The squad is a mess, has been for years, and was never going to be fixed in two transfer windows. Forget January, they’re a waste of time. The chaos behind the scenes is always likely to manifest itself to some degree in performances, and when you throw into the mix the awful injury crisis then it can come as absolutely no surprise that we are no closer to challenging the likes of City and Arsenal now than we were two years ago.

I agree, there is no discernible style of play. But, despite the “bust ups” you only have to look at the majority of the players, and listen to what many of them say, to know that they support this manager. And United simply cannot continue this cycle of employing a manager, giving him a couple of years, sacking him, before we rinse and repeat. At some point there has to be some stability.

It may be, if ten Hag stays another year, we’ll be absolutely no better off. But, on balance, I’d rather get the right people in post, clear out the deadwood on the playing staff, bring the right players in, try and resolve what’s behind the injury situation, and then judge what this manager is capable of. I’d far rather do that than recruit from the alleged shortlist we have, and by doing so start all over again, yet again.

 

[Slime]

You honestly think Man Utd can't attract a better manager than someone that guided you to your lowest ever league position, playing the most scattergun tactics whilst having numerous bust ups with players? This is on top of spending £450m on largely rubbish? INEOS won't base it on a one off fluke game and if they do, you're in bigger trouble than first thought.

Possibly one of the funniest paragraphs I've read on this forum.

 

[Don Barzini]

Seems pretty solid to me , who have they got that’s wrong ?

Well as I said, no Vincent Kompany. That’s scandalous. He’s the best manager in the world at the moment. He should be number one. Or higher even!

 

[PaulMdj]

Amazing how opposition fans always know what’s best for your Club.

 

[Tashyboy]

Amazing how opposition fans always know what’s best for your Club.

Not as amazing as following everyone’s second favourite club to one that is now loathed.

Strange that if City was a business that floated on the stock exchange. The shares would be worth a fortune and pension companies would invest in city

 

[road2ruin]

As regards the “rubbish”, I’ll give you Antony. He was a shocking signing at £85m.

I think what people have to remember about Anthony is that whilst ETH want him it would have been at about the £40m which is would have been available for at the time but it’s another example of the frankly pathetic transfer side of the business that we left it until the last minute and we were over a barrel with the transfer fee of £85m that was finally paid.

 

[Fade and Die]

Amazing how opposition fans always know what’s best for your Club.

#becarefulwhatyouwishfor

 

[Tashyboy]

I think what people have to remember about Anthony is that whilst ETH want him it would have been at about the £40m which is would have been available for at the time but it’s another example of the frankly pathetic transfer side of the business that we left it until the last minute and we were over a barrel with the transfer fee of £85m that was finally paid.

Personally I would not beat myself up over paying £45 million extra for Anthony. If you had not paid it the Glaziers would of had another £45 million outta the club. At least the Money stayed in football for a change

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Personally I would not beat myself up over paying £45 million extra for Anthony. If you had not paid it the Glaziers would of had another £45 million outta the club. At least the Money stayed in football for a change

That extra £45m might have gone to the agent though, so nowhere near football . We laugh, but................

 

[Tashyboy]

That extra £45m might have gone to the agent though, so nowhere near football . We laugh, but................

Probably Glazier agent.
The sad thing is that the Glaziers have robbed Utd for a generation. They must be livid or stupid paying that and seeing they have massively paid over the odds

 

[Swango1980]

Amazing how opposition fans always know what’s best for your Club.

Thinking the same thing. I'm all for opinions on other clubs, we all have them. But the amount of in depth negative analysis on Man Utd from other fans is remarkable. They must sit down, watch every game with a notepad and paper, and analyse them to death? We've already found out, incredibly, that a Liverpool fan visits Man Utd forums

Apparently ETH has taken the club backwards this season, because they've gone from 3rd to 8th. That is one of the direct arguments we've heard. However, the implication then must be that, if ETH is to blame, then a half decent manager would have been able to at least finish 3rd, if not progress to 2nd or 1st this season? Because 4th or worse is going backwards. All very well, but then does that mean a half decent manager would have beaten Liverpool, Villa, Spurs, etc in the league this season, because the Utd players are better than their players? At that point, the fans of those clubs would say no way, that Utd squad of players would not have beaten our club.

Had Utd not won any trophies the last two seasons, then ETH would be labelled as a loser, who cannot get over the winners line. But, they can't use that argument. If players had been allowed to get away with being unprofessional and not dealt with, he'd be accused as being a manager with no backbone. But, when he does deal with these sorts of players, he is accused of falling out with players, and he should somehow have been able to turn them into stars. It almost feels like opposition fans look for, and cling on to any negative aspect of what goes on at Man Utd, and then adamantly stick to the old stereotypical negative arguments associated with it. They will be completely deaf to any counter arguments or mitigating circumstances.

Take Man Utd before and after Sir Alex joined. In the years before, they finished 3,3,4,4,4. He joined in Nov 86. They finished that season 11th. Next season they got up to 2nd. Then the next 2 seasons finished 12th and 13th. Thank goodness Utd stuck with him, many called for his head as we all know. I've heard many opposition fans take a dig at Man Utd for their turnover of managers since Sir Alex left (despite being nowhere near as ruthless as clubs like Watford or Chelsea). Yet, many of these are the same fans that then insist that ETH should be sacked after 2 years.

Me, I want to see some loyalty. Not blind loyalty that keeps a poor manager at a club for a decade. But loyalty that backs a manager that has had to deal with so many problems at the club, and still come out winning trophies and showing good signs in the league last year with a settled (but still poor) squad. We were told by nearly all opposition fans when Rangnick was in charge that it could take 4-5 years minimum for Utd to have a competitive squad. That the squad at that time was so bad, we'd get nowhere near the top and be competitive. And, I think many Utd fans would actually have agreed on that point. Yet, 2 seasons in, and many of these people blame ETH for not making Utd competitive this season in the league?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I think what people have to remember about Anthony is that whilst ETH want him it would have been at about the £40m which is would have been available for at the time but it’s another example of the frankly pathetic transfer side of the business that we left it until the last minute and we were over a barrel with the transfer fee of £85m that was finally paid.

It’s a perfect example of the issues above any manager and not having someone in that role is going to hurt - who was it that bought the players until recently , was it still Woodward

Said earlier I don’t think there is a right answer when it comes to ETH , think it seems like that club or INEOS right now are maybe not treating him well and he deserves at least that

The one thing we got sorted before even getting a new manager was sorting out above in regards DoF etc and then letting them be part of the recruitment

What the club should do imo is get Ashworth sorted and then use his knowledge to look at the next move

 

[Swango1980]

It’s a perfect example of the issues above any manager and not having someone in that role is going to hurt - who was it that bought the players until recently , was it still Woodward

Said earlier I don’t think there is a right answer when it comes to ETH , think it seems like that club or INEOS right now are maybe not treating him well and he deserves at least that

The one thing we got sorted before even getting a new manager was sorting out above in regards DoF etc and then letting them be part of the recruitment

What the club should do imo is get Ashworth sorted and then use his knowledge to look at the next move

I do agree with this.

The media have been bashing ETH for a long time. It feels most of the questions are about him losing his job, pre and post FA Cup final. It looks like he is completely on his own, with his bosses offering no support whatsoever. Hanging him out to dry.

I said earlier, if they are going to sack him, sack him. Sack him before the Cup Final, if they don't think he is good enough. I'd think it would have been a huge mistake, but make the decision and go with it. Whereas, if they are going to continue to support him, support him. Bring some stability, and stop the need for the press asking questions, by coming out and saying ETH is your man, and you'll be looking to support him in the transfer market this season.

It seems to me that the upper management are still all over the place. They've not sorted themselves out. Not everyone is in place, even by the end of the season. So, they are trying to be clever, and leave every decision to the last minute, open to all options. It is a dangerous game to play, especially as this has all been leaked into the media (they should probably have known keeping secrets isn't easy) They end up sacking the manager, they have limited time to find a replacement and come up with a strategy for the following season (and if that doesn't go well, they look like right mugs), If they don't end up sacking ETH, ETH has been on edge for months, not knowing whether he is coming or going. So, is a lot of trust lost?

Another point I'd make, is that it is true that ETH has a poor relationship with someone like Sancho. But, I suspect there is quite a good bond between him and players like Hojlund, Mainoo, Garnacho, Martinez, Onana and others. Most of the players Utd fans want in the future of the club. I suspect he must have decent relationship with players like Bruno, making him the captain, and another player Utd fans would probably like to see at the club longer term, if we can get good players around him and see more of what we saw in cup final. If we get a new manager in, does this unsettle some of those players? To me, it doesn't feel like Man Utd are so poor, and all players are disillusioned and would welcome a new manager with new ideas, like is often the case (e.g. under Mourinho it felt like that at the end). There only seems to be one or 2 players (Rashford and Sancho) that feel disillusioned, and with Rashford I'm basing that mainly on body language and form. I think if you had players in the side like Onana, Martinez, Shaw, Dalot, Bruno, Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund, and added to that a few more strong minded good players, both to start and to be part of the wider squad to add competition, Man Utd would be a lot more consistent.

 

[nickjdavis]

It’s a perfect example of the issues above any manager and not having someone in that role is going to hurt - who was it that bought the players until recently , was it still Woodward

Said earlier I don’t think there is a right answer when it comes to ETH , think it seems like that club or INEOS right now are maybe not treating him well and he deserves at least that

The one thing we got sorted before even getting a new manager was sorting out above in regards DoF etc and then letting them be part of the recruitment

What the club should do imo is get Ashworth sorted and then use his knowledge to look at the next move

They cant even poach an employee of another club via a covert approach properly, so i wouldnt put too much money on Man U's internal ailments being resolved anytime soon.

 

[Tashyboy]

Man Utd: Ineos confident of solution over Nice in Europa League

Ineos is "confident" of finding a solution to allow its clubs Manchester United and French club Nice to compete in next season's Europa League.

www.bbc.co.uk

Seems that it’s not just City that have a problem with two clubs qualifying for European football.

 

[PaulMdj]

Thinking the same thing. I'm all for opinions on other clubs, we all have them. But the amount of in depth negative analysis on Man Utd from other fans is remarkable. They must sit down, watch every game with a notepad and paper, and analyse them to death? We've already found out, incredibly, that a Liverpool fan visits Man Utd forums

Apparently ETH has taken the club backwards this season, because they've gone from 3rd to 8th. That is one of the direct arguments we've heard. However, the implication then must be that, if ETH is to blame, then a half decent manager would have been able to at least finish 3rd, if not progress to 2nd or 1st this season? Because 4th or worse is going backwards. All very well, but then does that mean a half decent manager would have beaten Liverpool, Villa, Spurs, etc in the league this season, because the Utd players are better than their players? At that point, the fans of those clubs would say no way, that Utd squad of players would not have beaten our club.

Had Utd not won any trophies the last two seasons, then ETH would be labelled as a loser, who cannot get over the winners line. But, they can't use that argument. If players had been allowed to get away with being unprofessional and not dealt with, he'd be accused as being a manager with no backbone. But, when he does deal with these sorts of players, he is accused of falling out with players, and he should somehow have been able to turn them into stars. It almost feels like opposition fans look for, and cling on to any negative aspect of what goes on at Man Utd, and then adamantly stick to the old stereotypical negative arguments associated with it. They will be completely deaf to any counter arguments or mitigating circumstances.

Take Man Utd before and after Sir Alex joined. In the years before, they finished 3,3,4,4,4. He joined in Nov 86. They finished that season 11th. Next season they got up to 2nd. Then the next 2 seasons finished 12th and 13th. Thank goodness Utd stuck with him, many called for his head as we all know. I've heard many opposition fans take a dig at Man Utd for their turnover of managers since Sir Alex left (despite being nowhere near as ruthless as clubs like Watford or Chelsea). Yet, many of these are the same fans that then insist that ETH should be sacked after 2 years.

Me, I want to see some loyalty. Not blind loyalty that keeps a poor manager at a club for a decade. But loyalty that backs a manager that has had to deal with so many problems at the club, and still come out winning trophies and showing good signs in the league last year with a settled (but still poor) squad. We were told by nearly all opposition fans when Rangnick was in charge that it could take 4-5 years minimum for Utd to have a competitive squad. That the squad at that time was so bad, we'd get nowhere near the top and be competitive. And, I think many Utd fans would actually have agreed on that point. Yet, 2 seasons in, and many of these people blame ETH for not making Utd competitive this season in the league?

I wasn’t talking about LPool fans tbh, plus I often visit other Club accounts as you get both the ridiculous and the sensible.

 

[road2ruin]

They cant even poach an employee of another club via a covert approach properly, so i wouldnt put too much money on Man U's internal ailments being resolved anytime soon.

Ashworth inadvertently cc’d in his old Newcastle email address so not sure United can take any responsibility for that one.