The Footie Thread

[Bdill93]

Assuming it is simply that the players are at fault, and not the system. If the system is the problem, it is going to be pretty annoying changing a lot of England's best players to lesser players, and then finding out England are just as rubbish, if not worse. Experimenting in the group stages was bad enough, experimenting even more in the knockouts seems suicidal.

So many people were glowing about England being favourites before the tournament began. Best player in Premier League, Bundasliga, La Liga, etc. The only concern was defence. Now, three games in, there are fewer complaints about the defence, but suddenly fans are crying out for many of their biggest attacking players to get dropped.

Kane, Bellingham, Foden haven't suddenly become bad players. A selection of 3 games isn't really enough to prove that certain players are bang out of form, as the 3 games could have just been awful team performances.

At any rate, England's next game will start to show the true test for Southgate. He has shown nothing that he has learnt from past failures so far, but it is only the group stages and he ultimately won the group. But, when everything is on the line, how will he cope then? Especially when up against another top nation? Will he just play like he has been doing in the groups? Will he wait to make changes in the 68th minute (in fairness, he brought Mainoo on at half time last night). Will he make tactical changes, or stick to the exact same system, and hope fresh players are all that is needed at the end of the game?

English media and English fans - I wasnt one of them.

We never play like we should, we never take pot shots from outside the box like many nations do in international football, we always try and score the perfect man city esque goal which we cant do.

If the system isn't going to change, which it doesn't look like it will because it never has before under GS mid tournament - then the players have to be changed, its that simple.

This best players for lesser players is rubbish, these guys are all top top players, Id take literally all of them in their positions at Villa, I dont care if Its Saka or Palmer or Eze to be honest, people need to get off their high horse on some players and just accept they're not playing well at present.

 

[Wabinez]

I'd even look at taking Bellingham out next game. He has been largely irrelevant for the last 2.5 games. The amount of football he has played, let him rest. Play Foden in the middle. If you need Bellingham, bring him on for 20 minutes, rather than expecting to get a good 90 minutes out of him.

Pickford
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Trippier

Rice
Mainoo

Palmer
Foden
Saka

Kane

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A gift wrapped draw. Southgate does seem to get them. And generally fails to take advantage.

Am I right thinking we could end up playing the Dutch. Not sure that will be easy

 

[PaulMdj]

But at least he was trying something...trying to be positive...trying to beat the defender instead of looking for the safe backwards/sideways pass.

Bloke comes on after sitting on his arse for 89 minutes its going to take a while to get up to speed with the game....yet in that one instant you could see that Gordon had the beating of the right back....he did something that the commentators had been crying out for an England player to do....take a risk, try to make something happen....yes you might lose the ball, give it away...but the way Slovenia played and the lack of ambition they largely showed, England were nigh on guaranteed to be back in possession within a short while.

Across the field we simply look terrified of making a mistake, scared to try something that might not work....only Palmer in the 23 minutes that he was given and Gordon (4 minutes) showed that desire to make something happen.

Every player at some point took an opposition on, or made a decent pass or in some cases produced a chance.

It’s disingenious to claim only Palmer or Gordon showed desire to make something happen. Their decent play is highlighted by the short time on the pitch.

To see how they’d actually fair would be to give them both a decent run out or to start the match’s.

But, there is absolutely no guarantee making just 1 or 2 changes is going to change the way England have played.

 

[Tashyboy]

Am I right thinking we could end up playing the Dutch. Not sure that will be easy

The Dutch have worked there group well.

Seen a fantastic performance in an England shirt that gladdens the heart. Unfortunately it was at a kids Skool sports day. He looked about 8 and it was the most movement in an England shirt I have seen this summer.

 

[PaulMdj]

Reading back over the last few days there has been a case made for just about changing every player that has started the games apart from Guehi & Stones.

We aren’t stupid, we’ve all watched the same dross apart from 30 mins against Serbia and 15 mins against the Danes.

There has to be something else from Southgate affecting the players, I’m not trying to make excuses because I genuinely don’t think Southgate is happy with what he’s seeing, but come on, 9 players looking out of form or tired or leggy or or or.

No idea what the answer is, just hope something changes for the next game, same XI, different XI, just give us a performance we could be proud of.

 

[Tashyboy]

Reading back over the last few days there has been a case made for just about changing every player that has started the games apart from Guehi & Stones.

We aren’t stupid, we’ve all watched the same dross apart from 30 mins against Serbia and 15 mins against the Danes.

There has to be something else from Southgate affecting the players, I’m not trying to make excuses because I genuinely don’t think Southgate is happy with what he’s seeing, but come on, 9 players looking out of form or tired or leggy or or or.

No idea what the answer is, just hope something changes for the next game, same XI, different XI, just give us a performance we could be proud of.

I honestly don’t think it’s the players. I think it is the system. Putting square pegs at this level don’t work. Like last night. Walker switched to left back. Now he has pace to burn and could get behind defenders. So why not Trippier right back Walker left back or TAA. I could not blame the players playing an unbalanced system. They have carried him For three tournaments playing in the right positions, they cannot do it playing out of position.

 

[PaulMdj]

I honestly don’t think it’s the players. I think it is the system. Putting square pegs at this level don’t work. Like last night. Walker switched to left back. Now he has pace to burn and could get behind defenders. So why not Trippier right back Walker left back or TAA. I could not blame the players playing an unbalanced system. They have carried him For three tournaments playing in the right positions, they cannot do it playing out of position.

For the 8 years in charge we have complained about Southgate and his team selections etc, he’s done nothing different in this tournament, but I have never in those 8 years seen 3 matches in a row as bad as these 3 have been.

 

[Beezerk]

I honestly don’t think it’s the players. I think it is the system. Putting square pegs at this level don’t work. Like last night. Walker switched to left back. Now he has pace to burn and could get behind defenders. So why not Trippier right back Walker left back or TAA. I could not blame the players playing an unbalanced system. They have carried him For three tournaments playing in the right positions, they cannot do it playing out of position.

System Failure...Please Reboot...

 

[AmandaJR]

The depressing thing, and I'm not alone in this, is that I'll make arrangements to ensure I'm home to watch the match. Watch it I will. Depressed I will be. Can't help it though. Just the glimmer of hope we'll perform as we all believe we can and should. Not arrogance, rather than knowing the quality of the players we see perform week in and week out, often against tougher opponents.

It is indeed the hope that kills you :-(

 

[PJ87]

Was a good game once Palmer came on. We actually looked like creating chances, weird that..

Same every game with the subs trying to impress

First game Bowen comes on, almost gets an assist if not from a world class save denying kane

Second game Watkins comes on , almost scored from a good through ball

Last time Palmer comes on looks lively , same with Gordon to be fair

 

[BubbaP]

Just glanced at the Beeb and seems 'Saka to LB' has been gaining momentum in the chats!

 

[nickjdavis]

For the 8 years in charge we have complained about Southgate and his team selections etc, he’s done nothing different in this tournament, but I have never in those 8 years seen 3 matches in a row as bad as these 3 have been.

make it 5 if you include the two friendlies against Bosnia (scoreline largely flattered us) and Iceland

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Am I right thinking we could end up playing the Dutch. Not sure that will be easy

No game will be easy at that point but having watched them against France and Austria, I think we have done okay with the draw. Equally, they will be looking at the other first place teams and thinking the same about us

 

[Orikoru]

No game will be easy at that point but having watched them against France and Austria, I think we have done okay with the draw. Equally, they will be looking at the other first place teams and thinking the same about us

Yup, already nailed on to be the worst game of the last 16.

 

[PaulMdj]

make it 5 if you include the two friendlies against Bosnia (scoreline largely flattered us) and Iceland

Agree, but I excused him as he never had a full squad available

 

[4LEX]

We probably won't need to predict the line up Southgate will choose for long. It seems like his starting line up is revealed a day or 2 before the game actually kicks off.

That points to leaks in the camp and some unhappy players.

 

[nickjdavis]

Am I right thinking we could end up playing the Dutch. Not sure that will be easy

they got a defense like a sieve...Austria battered them yesterday and could have had the game done and dusted by half time....a half decent England will have no problems with the Dutch...

...oh hang on....half decent England? umm err.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Based on what we’ve seen so far, and player form.. I’d go;

Pickford

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Guehi
Walker

Rice/Gallagher
Mainoo

Saka
Palmer
Gordon
Watkins


Kane, Bellingham, Foden have offered nothing really. However, they’re arguably too big to drop and we know Southgate won’t drop Kane or Bellingham. Foden going home may be a blessing in disguise, unless ofc he comes back.

Trippier has offered nothing either so why not try the back 4 as it was at the end of the game yesterday.

I dont understand Southgate’s lineup or reluctance to change things/make subs/mix it up. He seems completely lost but he has more options than ever. A truly horrendous coach

 

[4LEX]

Part of me thinks we'll do better against a team that comes out and attacks, compared to the rubbish we played in the group stage.