The Footie Thread

[Lord Tyrion]

Maybe if they sell Jones, Maguire/Lindelof, McTomminay, de Beek and Elanga they could make up the £211m (or maybe £2.11m, not sure where the decimal point lies).

I wonder how much we'd get for Greenwood?

I think you were right with the second quote . The problem with a good number of those, not Elanga, is that they are on inflated wages for how they are playing. Any transfer will take that into account. Greenwood, I think we know the answer to that........

Incidentally, we tried to take Elanga off your hands, remove the splinters, but for some reason TH wants to keep him wrapped up on the bench. Odd

I know Utd are incredibly wealthy but last summer had a lot of expenditure and I'm not sure spending that much on one player this summer makes sense for them. They also don't seem to be involved in the chat about him? Saying that, if new owners come in, maybe they will do a Chelsea and go nuts.

 

[Swango1980]

I think you were right with the second quote . The problem with a good number of those, not Elanga, is that they are on inflated wages for how they are playing. Any transfer will take that into account. Greenwood, I think we know the answer to that........

I know Utd are incredibly wealthy but last summer had a lot of expenditure and I'm not sure spending that much on one player this summer makes sense for them. They also don't seem to be involved in the chat about him? Saying that, if new owners come in, maybe they will do a Chelsea and go nuts.

That's what worries me, ironically, given so many fans are desperate for their clubs to "go nuts".

Too many times in last decade, Man Utd have just splashed out on big players, and it has been awful on the pitch.

For me, I want a manager at the club who is very confident in the sort of players / characters he needs at the club, and the ones he doesn't. So far, I think ten Hag is that man. I then want him to have a direct influence on what the guys above him do, rather than new players just turning up to training one day because the owners felt like playing Championship Manager. If they want to go a little nuts on a player the manager wants (trusted manager), then OK. Just not randomly getting done over by a big players agent, and getting screwed out of millions for a player we didn't really need.

 

[Bdill93]

Did last season not happen then ?‍

We had a shocking season in 20/21 where we just scrapped into top 4 - the next season challenged for everything going winning two trophies

Like I said - short memories

I'm saying what I'm seeing, I don't have a long term memory of Liverpool's final table positions but I have first hand accounts of actually watching you play and making my own judgements.

You've never looked so far off it as you do now though, why cant you just admit that? You wont attract top top players without CL football and you're not going to get it at your current rate - but you have in previous "poor years" like 2020/21 where you still finished third.

It seems you're fully expecting a title challenge again next year with the addition of one player who probably wants CL football and therefore wont come anyway.

Then what? Klopp failed to recover from this position at Dortmund....

 

[Bdill93]

Utd did spend £60m on Casemiro, a 30yr old (a steady eddie apparently )

I suspect a club could therefore bid a fair bit higher for a proven striker of a similar age? Maybe. It is difficult to predict what value clubs will place on a player these days. What will Levy demand, given he could lose him for nothing a year later? If Levy is too resistant (assuming Kane does want to go), will Utd just look elsewhere, like the younger chap at Napoli?

United have a strong history post fergie of signing big name proven strikers towards the end of their careers - Kane is younger than most of those and prem proven - I think it'd be a great move for both player and club.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm saying what I'm seeing, I don't have a long term memory of Liverpool's final table positions but I have first hand accounts of actually watching you play and making my own judgements.

So you don’t have a long term memory of “final positions” yet you can state that Klopp during his time has never had to recover ?‍

Maybe you shouldn’t focus purely on final positions

To give you some insight then

Season 19/20 we won the league by a mile

Season 20/21 - we started well but then lost a number of players and at some stage dropped down to 9th in the league and also lost 6 out of 7 league games , binned out of all the cups and the CL , we spent most of the last stage of the season battling to get into the top 4 and only got into the top 4 in the second to last game of the season and ended up nearly 20 points behind City who won - we managed to do it because we 7 games on the bounce

You've never looked so far off it as you do now though, why cant you just admit that? You wont attract top top players without CL football and you're not going to get it at your current rate - but you have in previous "poor years" like 2020/21 where you still finished third.

Admit what ? Yes we are poor at the moment after a drop in form and lost a number of players - just like we did in 20/21

And yes we can still attract the players the manager wants - we managed it when Klopp arrived and the manager will be a big pull for that.

It seems you're fully expecting a title challenge again next year with the addition of one player who probably wants CL football and therefore wont come anyway.

Then what? Klopp failed to recover from this position at Dortmund....

Who said anything expecting a title challenge ? But we have shown that we have recovered from a poor season and gone again.

During the summer we will bring new players in and go again - we were written off before and recovered

We aren’t suddenly in the doldrums.

 

[Neilds]

Just goes to show that money doesn't always bring results!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

View attachment 46234

Just goes to show that money doesn't always bring results!

So out of that list there is just one player who really made a difference to a team

 

[Beezerk]

So out of that list there is just one player who really made a difference to a team

Yeah, Grealish is class ?

 

[Bdill93]

So you don’t have a long term memory of “final positions” yet you can state that Klopp during his time has never had to recover ?‍

Maybe you shouldn’t focus purely on final positions

To give you some insight then

Season 19/20 we won the league by a mile

Season 20/21 - we started well but then lost a number of players and at some stage dropped down to 9th in the league and also lost 6 out of 7 league games , binned out of all the cups and the CL , we spent most of the last stage of the season battling to get into the top 4 and only got into the top 4 in the second to last game of the season and ended up nearly 20 points behind City who won - we managed to do it because we 7 games on the bounce


Admit what ? Yes we are poor at the moment after a drop in form and lost a number of players - just like we did in 20/21

And yes we can still attract the players the manager wants - we managed it when Klopp arrived and the manager will be a big pull for that.


Who said anything expecting a title challenge ? But we have shown that we have recovered from a poor season and gone again.

During the summer we will bring new players in and go again - we were written off before and recovered

We aren’t suddenly in the doldrums.

You make it sound like VVD returning from injury wasn't the reason you "recovered" - its not like you have actually finished a season 10th and had to mount a charge back up the table the following season is it. VVD was an absolute beast for 2/3 seasons and your defence was untouchable when he played.

Why shouldn't you expect a title challenge, you were contesting it less than 12 months ago? You should still be close to those levels - you're not - but you should be and Im stunned you dont expect better.

Fact of the matter is - this season you have nothing to blame on your poor form other than just not being at it. There is no VVD to return from injury or an injured Salah coming back in to score the goals again - they're already playing and not playing well enough.

How that isn't worrying I don't know!

 

[Swango1980]

And yes we can still attract the players the manager wants - we managed it when Klopp arrived and the manager will be a big pull for that.


Who said anything expecting a title challenge ? But we have shown that we have recovered from a poor season and gone again.

During the summer we will bring new players in and go again - we were written off before and recovered

We aren’t suddenly in the doldrums.

You will attract the players the manager wants!? That just sounds arrogant. I'm sure there are good players you will attract, but that doesn't mean that any player Klopp wants, those players will see Liverpool as their first choice.

The difficulty Liverpool have is that you seem even more off the pace than you ever did under Klopp. Do you have a Salah that can reach the heights he did a few seasons ago once again? it seems like Liverpool need more of a rebuild now, rather than just wait for one or 2 players to get fit again, and hit form. The other issue Liverpool probably have is that there are probably more teams now that will challenge them, on and off the pitch. A few years ago, City were the only major competition on a consistent basis. Now you still have City, but Man Utd and Arsenal are now becoming a much more attractive proposition again, and who knows with Chelsea and the millions they are spending. Dare I say it, even Newcastle are looking good, and could give some of the "big" clubs a run for their money.

A few years ago, looking in at the PL and the teams big players would want to go to if they wanted to challenge for success, City and Liverpool were probably the only 2 realistic options. Now, looking in at the PL, a few more clubs will feel like interesting options for a player moving to the PL. I suspect Liverpool are much less appealing than they would have been a few seasons ago.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You make it sound like VVD returning from injury wasn't the reason you "recovered" - its not like you have actually finished a season 10th and had to mount a charge back up the table the following season is it. VVD was an absolute beast for 2/3 seasons and your defence was untouchable when he played.

Why shouldn't you expect a title challenge, you were contesting it less than 12 months ago? You should still be close to those levels - you're not - but you should be and Im stunned you dont expect better.

Fact of the matter is - this season you have nothing to blame on your poor form other than just not being at it. There is no VVD to return from injury or an injured Salah coming back in to score the goals again - they're already playing and not playing well enough.

How that isn't worrying I don't know!

VVD is out injured and has been for a month so far

We have Diaz , Jota and Firmino out as well

Have also through the season had

Konate
Matip
Robbo
Henderson
Ox
Keita

Out for periods

Last season took a lot out of the players and it’s been a disruptive season after a short pre season

I don’t think you are reading posts very well

We have a drop in form right now through a number of reasons - but I have no doubt that the club , manager and players have the ability to recover to not only put on a run this season ( done it before ) and also challenge for trophies next season.

Why would I be “worried” - more than used to ups and downs over the last 40 years plus and we have been in far worst positions.

 

[fundy]

Where do you think you will finish in the league this year Phil and do you think Bellingham will join if you arent in the Champions League?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Where do you think you will finish in the league this year Phil and do you think Bellingham will join if you arent in the Champions League?

In answer to the second point I think he would still join if we missed out on CL

First one - I think at the moment around 5/6th - if we can get some results going and the likes of Diaz and Jota back then who knows , going to be tough to claw back 7 points

 

[Billysboots]

I think one element which is perhaps being overlooked in the Bellingham to Liverpool debate is the club itself. I will admit to not knowing anything about the ownership and finances, but surely there has to be at least a small question mark over whether the club would sanction a £120m player purchase if they don’t have Champion’s League football.

We have all seen it. Drop out of the CL, lose out on considerable revenue, struggle to attract/afford the right players, and suddenly the annual qualification which you took for granted for so long becomes a real struggle.

It’s a huge gamble spending that sort of money on one player unless an almost immediate return (and by immediate I mean one or two seasons) is pretty much nailed on.

 

[Swango1980]

When Salah, Nunez, Firminho, Jota, Gapko, Diaz and Carvalho are all fit, who would Klopps first choice front 3 be, in general? Would any of them be in his front 3 (say, are 1 or 2 of them the star players), or would they all be rotated?

With Salah and Firminho still at the club, I think Liverpool have spent around 250 million Euro on 4 forwards (including add ons). Is that Liverpool spending their money wisely, as they are much better at spending money than all the other clubs? Or, did they panic due to injuries, and will find themselves top heavy when everyone is fit again? If it was a panic, could they have saved themselves over 100 million Euro to invest in midfield. Would that have been a wiser investment longer term?

 

[fundy]

I think one element which is perhaps being overlooked in the Bellingham to Liverpool debate is the club itself. I will admit to not knowing anything about the ownership and finances, but surely there has to be at least a small question mark over whether the club would sanction a £120m player purchase if they don’t have Champion’s League football.

We have all seen it. Drop out of the CL, lose out on considerable revenue, struggle to attract/afford the right players, and suddenly the annual qualification which you took for granted for so long becomes a real struggle.

It’s a huge gamble spending that sort of money on one player unless an almost immediate return (and by immediate I mean one or two seasons) is pretty much nailed on.

Or you spend a billion over 3 windows to make sure you get back there

 

[fundy]

In answer to the second point I think he would still join if we missed out on CL

First one - I think at the moment around 5/6th - if we can get some results going and the likes of Diaz and Jota back then who knows , going to be tough to claw back 7 points

Not sure I agree with this when he will have his pick of the top clubs. Is the draw of Klopp and Liverpools history really enough to overcome no CL?

 

[Swango1980]

Not sure I agree with this when he will have his pick of the top clubs. Is the draw of Klopp and Liverpools history really enough to overcome no CL?

Maybe it is if you're a Liverpool fan.

I'm not so sure, though, if you are a Birmingham City fan and once said nice things about Liverpool?

Even Gary Neville has said some nice things about Liverpool FC over the last few years. But, I still don't think that makes him a "big fan of the club"

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not sure I agree with this when he will have his pick of the top clubs. Is the draw of Klopp and Liverpools history really enough to overcome no CL?

All depends on a players mindset at the end of the day

Klopp is regarded as one of the best managers in the world. We have been one of the best teams in the world over the last 5 years - would a player judge on that or just look at the current loss of form.

Would he think that the club with the players they have be back within the year and he would be a part - or would he think that it’s going to be years before the club get back.

If we didn’t have Klopp then I think the chances would be very slim - but Klopp is key to it all

 

[stefanovic]

Domestic clubs don't pay much tax or none on transfers.
Buy a player from a foreign team for no tax.
If some clubs can splash out over £100 million on a player then they should pay tax.
No wonder the PL is replete with overseas players and it gives them experience at the top level whereas our own players can miss out.
England team is sure to lose out.