Cancelled membership. Am I liable to pay until end of April?

[golfoutlaw]

Out of interest, do you know that your new club’s Handicap Committee, if faced with the same information that your previous club’s Committee were, would have made a different decision?

In my experience it is not easy to find out about the quality (knowledge, fairness, diligence, experience) of a club’s handicap management process. In other words it’s sometimes not easy to find out which one is the frying pan and which one’s the fire.

Pretty sure my new club isn’t ran by a secretary making decisions off people who have had sour grapes, especially ones related to them.

 

[golfoutlaw]

also a member close to me who used to be on the handicap committee a few years ago confirmed it was outside influences pushing the decision.

You cannot go after someone off 1 board comp win and also use a knockout win to further scrape the barrel.

An adjustment of 3.2 was make belief in his eyes.

According the attached below formula I shot 48 points

 

[Orikoru]

A few haters on the this forum for sure

I wouldn't say that, but your replies have been a tad defensive and almost hostile, which probably provokes people to come back just as hard. I think most people were on your side to begin with in your previous thread until you shouted down the one or two naysayers.

 

[golfoutlaw]

I wouldn't say that, but your replies have been a tad defensive and almost hostile, which probably provokes people to come back just as hard. I think most people were on your side to begin with in your previous thread until you shouted down the one or two naysayers.

Wouldn’t say came back hard, came back with nonsense to suit their argument in my opinion

 

[Orikoru]

Wouldn’t say came back hard, came back with nonsense to suit their argument in my opinion

Or simply speculating based on limited information. We love a gossip around here.

 

[Swango1980]

None of us know the complete ins and outs, stories from both sides, in this whole handicap debate. All we know is that a golfer was very upset with a large handicap reduction, but a Committee deemed it to be reasonable. If we were part of the membership of that club, perhaps we'd be in a better position to judge whose argument holds up as fairer. Were the Committee "tin pot" or was the player difficult? No idea.

However, assuming both clubs are fairly local, golfers talk. Given this issue has been raised on a national golf forum, I would not be surprised if it was a big talking point at your old club. Your old club will likely have Committee members who know people at your new club, and/or play at your new club every now and then. If things ended on a sour note, which seems to be the case, you can quite easily see them asking questions like "how is golfoutlaw getting on at your course, he was a nightmare at ours, etc". You could have people you don't even know, or have never spoken to you, judging you on the opinions of others.

It is why I said in the other thread, it is best to try and resolve everything, with everyone, in the friendliest terms as possible. Even if that meant you still ended up leaving. Unless, of course, your old club is known in the local area as having a tin pot Committee, and it has a really poor reputation. If that was the case, then negative remarks from your old club won't hold much credibility.

There is a chance that Committee members at your new club will have a firmer eye on your handicap than they do on other members, if there has been any discussion between clubs. No doubt the new Committee will hold handicap reviews. So, if your handicap increases again by 4-5 shots in a year and a half, and you win a major, a couple of lesser competitions and do well in match play events, just beware that you could be in the exact same position again

 

[Neilds]

Wouldn’t say came back hard, came back with nonsense to suit their argument in my opinion

To be fair, I feel you have acted fairly well in discussing this issue. You haven't named the club which is good imo but where you have fallen down a bit (and left yourself open to 'attack') is you only gave part of the story when you first posted. If you had full disclosure at the beginning, and left out the conspiracy theories about your next KO opponent, then maybe you would have had a more balanced response.

All my own thoughts

 

[golfoutlaw]

Or simply speculating based on limited information. We love a gossip around here.

Countered with facts. Some people just love to try and shoot someone down without knowing how things are.

Going to another club to get away from toxic influences is hard to believe for some.

Maybe some just can’t digest how easy it was for me to make such a decision as they probably couldn’t fathom doing it themselves if a situation ever occurred to them.

None of us know the complete ins and outs, stories from both sides, in this whole handicap debate. All we know is that a golfer was very upset with a large handicap reduction, but a Committee deemed it to be reasonable. If we were part of the membership of that club, perhaps we'd be in a better position to judge whose argument holds up as fairer. Were the Committee "tin pot" or was the player difficult? No idea.

However, assuming both clubs are fairly local, golfers talk. Given this issue has been raised on a national golf forum, I would not be surprised if it was a big talking point at your old club. Your old club will likely have Committee members who know people at your new club, and/or play at your new club every now and then. If things ended on a sour note, which seems to be the case, you can quite easily see them asking questions like "how is golfoutlaw getting on at your course, he was a nightmare at ours, etc". You could have people you don't even know, or have never spoken to you, judging you on the opinions of others.

It is why I said in the other thread, it is best to try and resolve everything, with everyone, in the friendliest terms as possible. Even if that meant you still ended up leaving. Unless, of course, your old club is known in the local area as having a tin pot Committee, and it has a really poor reputation. If that was the case, then negative remarks from your old club won't hold much credibility.

There is a chance that Committee members at your new club will have a firmer eye on your handicap than they do on other members, if there has been any discussion between clubs. No doubt the new Committee will hold handicap reviews. So, if your handicap increases again by 4-5 shots in a year and a half, and you win a major, a couple of lesser competitions and do well in match play events, just beware that you could be in the exact same position again

People think I am leaving my previous club on bad terms which couldn’t be any further from the truth. People outgrow certain areas of their life and sometimes a little push was all that was needed.

As for all the gossip at the new club?

I really see no issues if people want to talk. I have nothing to hide. I have broad shoulders.

People at my new club know me and I sleep well at night knowing fresh beginnings is something I very much look forward to.

 

[golfoutlaw]

as said previously, taking 5 other members with me speaks volumes

 

[sunshine]

also a member close to me who used to be on the handicap committee a few years ago confirmed it was outside influences pushing the decision.

You cannot go after someone off 1 board comp win and also use a knockout win to further scrape the barrel.

An adjustment of 3.2 was make belief in his eyes.

According the attached below formula I shot 48 points

That attachment doesn't look like anything official, more like a society calculation, I'd be surprised if that had anything to do with WHS or England Golf.

 

[sunshine]

New club isn’t tin pot buddy.

Thanks tho

There's something very familiar about your posts. Would you describe yourself as quite a smooth guy?

 

[golfoutlaw]

There's something very familiar about your posts. Would you describe yourself as quite a smooth guy?

Smooth like sandpaper?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I know of a member who left his club midway through the year and refused to pay up what his balance was. Club secretaries talk, and he then found no club would take him until he had settled his ourstanding debt to the club he walked away from.

 

[golfoutlaw]

I know of a member who left his club midway through the year and refused to pay up what his balance was. Club secretaries talk, and he then found no club would take him until he had settled his ourstanding debt to the club he walked away from.

That’s what I was worried about.

Forumers thinking I’ve left on bad terms or something?

 

[sunshine]

I’m sure the FCA definition is related to any facility that forwards a financial facility over a set period of time and is agreed to by both parties in a binding manner. Interest is only mentioned in the section related to interest bearing arrangements.

It may have been changed since I last read/worked with it when I was working with HSBC in 2021.

I don't work in financial services, but this is what I read. Maybe there were changes to the law.

It doesn't make sense for payments in installments to require a consumer credit licence. Loads of companies operate this way. Let's say I'm getting a new patio for £4k and I agree to pay the bulder £2k up front and £2k after completion. Is that a financial facility?

 

[D-S]

I think it must be remembered that the Handicap Committee in reviewing a golfer’s handicap which appears not to truly reflect their demonstrated ability across different formats of competitive golf (including knockouts and non qualifying formats), was doing their job diligently and properly. There are checks and balances in the system (as have been described in this thread) for players to have odd or wrong decisions overturned if necessary.

Whether they came to the right conclusion or not depends on having all the evidence in front of you, not just one side gradually giving out information bit by bit.

Peer review is important in this as well as previous handicap systems, especially those where a lot of competitive golf isn’t shown on a players record.

I’d prefer to be a member of a club, where I played lots of competitions, which had an active Handicap Committee as opposed to a Club or Committee who don’t care or aren’t interested or don’t have time or have little knowledge/ understanding of the rules.

 

[D-S]

I don't work in financial services, but this is what I read. Maybe there were changes to the law.

I think this is the case as we used to just use direct debit but were advised about 9 or 10 years ago that we would, after a law change, now require a credit licence.

 

[sunshine]

I think this is the case as we used to just use direct debit but were advised about 9 or 10 years ago that we would, after a law change, now require a credit licence.

Maybe they have now changed the law back again after realising it was over zealous. The article I read was from last year.

 

[golfoutlaw]

I think it must be remembered that the Handicap Committee in reviewing a golfer’s handicap which appears not to truly reflect their demonstrated ability across different formats of competitive golf (including knockouts and non qualifying formats), was doing their job diligently and properly. There are checks and balances in the system (as have been described in this thread) for players to have odd or wrong decisions overturned if necessary.

Whether they came to the right conclusion or not depends on having all the evidence in front of you, not just one side gradually giving out information bit by bit.

Peer review is important in this as well as previous handicap systems, especially those where a lot of competitive golf isn’t shown on a players record.

I’d prefer to be a member of a club, where I played lots of competitions, which had an active Handicap Committee as opposed to a Club or Committee who don’t care or aren’t interested or don’t have time or have little knowledge/ understanding of the rules.

Ofcourse if it’s consistent.

I’ve clearly been singled out compared to other members last year.

For e.g

OM winner
Seniors Championship
2 x board comps
1 x KO

That’s 5 majors mopped up from last year by 1 member.

Was he touched?

I’ll give you one guess…..

 

[MACM85]

Ofcourse if it’s consistent.

I’ve clearly been singled out compared to other members last year.

For e.g

OM winner
Seniors Championship
2 x board comps
1 x KO

That’s 5 majors mopped up from last year by 1 member.

Was he touched?

I’ll give you one guess…..

It is near impossible to comment if that person should have had a review of their handicap.

Had the player in question gone up a few shots with some general play cards and poor competition scores to increase their handicap by x which then allowed them a better chance to win?

All this he should have had this done as well is just tit for tat and comes across as sour grapes. Unless you can 10000% prove that they have some sort of vendetta against you then I can't see what happens to other members being in question.

You were obviously on the list from EG for a review. Review conducted, handicap cut and you have found it harsh and unjust, rather than argue your case and appeal you jumped ship with 5 other chaps. Who knows what the decision would have been if the proper outcome and procedure was followed by you and the committee.

Now you don't have to worry as you have joined a better club which perhaps you should have done earlier if it is substantially better than where you were.