The all things EV chat thread

[Jimaroid]

That's why colbate is being removed from new battery tech, whilst fossil fuels still use it.

Whataboutery. Pick any element we dig out of the ground and the problem holds true.

Graphite batteries will have the same issue. What’s a good source of graphite? Coal beds.

Around and around and around we go. Digging minerals out of the ground. Madness.

 

[PJ87]

Whataboutery. Pick any element we dig out of the ground and the problem holds true.

Graphite batteries will have the same issue. What’s a good source of graphite? Coal beds.

Around and around and around we go. Digging minerals out of the ground. Madness.

What is the suggestion then? For personal transport? Hydrogen is great but the energy needed to produce to make it is less efficient than using energy to charge an EV. And all that hydrogen needs to be green which is more stress on the system

So either way whataboutary or not ev is here to stay and it's a good way to reduce fossil fuel usage.

 

[Neilds]

What is the suggestion then? For personal transport? Hydrogen is great but the energy needed to produce to make it is less efficient than using energy to charge an EV. And all that hydrogen needs to be green which is more stress on the system

So either way whataboutary or not ev is here to stay and it's a good way to reduce fossil fuel usage.

It is difficult to find any sort of energy creation that people want near their houses, in the countryside, at sea, etc and all the time people want more energy to charge all their devices. Not sure what the answer is though, so don't come back with that question

 

[Jimaroid]

What is the suggestion then?

Fewer people.

 

[bobmac]

I’ll read more of it later but clearly that’s a headline with an agenda.

Ok, try this...

BNEF (2021)

In March 2021, Bloomberg New Energy Finance found that "renewables are the cheapest power option for 71% of global GDP and 85% of global power generation.

Or this...

Is renewable energy cheaper than fossil fuels? | Eco Experts

Renewable energy capacity is growing year on year – but are they cheaper than their fossil fuel counterparts? Find out in this article.

www.theecoexperts.co.uk

Maybe this
Solar PV is now the cheapest source of electricity around the world

Electricity generation - Energy UK

Insights Source: National Grid ESO UK electricity generation in 2023 2023 was one of the greenest years on record for electricity generation with the share of renewables on the system continuing to grow. In 2023 more electricity came from renewable and nuclear power sources than from fossil...

www.energy-uk.org.uk

Or this

The cheapest electricity now comes from wind and solar​

The energy revolution: The cheapest electricity now comes from wind and solar

Global Electricity Review says that from now on, fossil production of electricity will decline.

innovationorigins.com

Net zero is cheaper and greener than continuing the use of fossil fuels​

Net zero is cheaper and greener than continuing the use of fossil fuels

Going green is no longer just the smart decision – it's also the most profitable one.

www.nhm.ac.uk

Renewables are cheaper than ever yet fossil fuel use is still growing – here’s why

Despite the meteoric rise of wind and solar, fossil energy sources have met most new demand in fast-growing economies.

theconversation.com

I could go on

 

[PJ87]

Ok, try this...

BNEF (2021)

In March 2021, Bloomberg New Energy Finance found that "renewables are the cheapest power option for 71% of global GDP and 85% of global power generation.

Or this...

Is renewable energy cheaper than fossil fuels? | Eco Experts

Renewable energy capacity is growing year on year – but are they cheaper than their fossil fuel counterparts? Find out in this article.

www.theecoexperts.co.uk

Maybe this
Solar PV is now the cheapest source of electricity around the world

Electricity generation - Energy UK

Insights Source: National Grid ESO UK electricity generation in 2023 2023 was one of the greenest years on record for electricity generation with the share of renewables on the system continuing to grow. In 2023 more electricity came from renewable and nuclear power sources than from fossil...

www.energy-uk.org.uk

Or this

The cheapest electricity now comes from wind and solar​

The energy revolution: The cheapest electricity now comes from wind and solar

Global Electricity Review says that from now on, fossil production of electricity will decline.

innovationorigins.com

Net zero is cheaper and greener than continuing the use of fossil fuels​

Net zero is cheaper and greener than continuing the use of fossil fuels

Going green is no longer just the smart decision – it's also the most profitable one.

www.nhm.ac.uk

Renewables are cheaper than ever yet fossil fuel use is still growing – here’s why

Despite the meteoric rise of wind and solar, fossil energy sources have met most new demand in fast-growing economies.

theconversation.com

I could go on

I think @Jimaroid is saying (I'm sure he will correct if I'm misquoting) that to get all of that we still need to mine materials. So all those panels and wind turbines need raw minerals.

I personally think that's a small price to pay. If we are mining anyways for fossil fuel that just creates issues if we use the mining to put to renewable use then at least the emissions are a lot lower.

 

[BrianM]

Ok, try this...

BNEF (2021)

In March 2021, Bloomberg New Energy Finance found that "renewables are the cheapest power option for 71% of global GDP and 85% of global power generation.

Or this...

Is renewable energy cheaper than fossil fuels? | Eco Experts

Renewable energy capacity is growing year on year – but are they cheaper than their fossil fuel counterparts? Find out in this article.

www.theecoexperts.co.uk

Maybe this
Solar PV is now the cheapest source of electricity around the world

Electricity generation - Energy UK

Insights Source: National Grid ESO UK electricity generation in 2023 2023 was one of the greenest years on record for electricity generation with the share of renewables on the system continuing to grow. In 2023 more electricity came from renewable and nuclear power sources than from fossil...

www.energy-uk.org.uk

Or this

The cheapest electricity now comes from wind and solar​

The energy revolution: The cheapest electricity now comes from wind and solar

Global Electricity Review says that from now on, fossil production of electricity will decline.

innovationorigins.com

Net zero is cheaper and greener than continuing the use of fossil fuels​

Net zero is cheaper and greener than continuing the use of fossil fuels

Going green is no longer just the smart decision – it's also the most profitable one.

www.nhm.ac.uk

Renewables are cheaper than ever yet fossil fuel use is still growing – here’s why

Despite the meteoric rise of wind and solar, fossil energy sources have met most new demand in fast-growing economies.

theconversation.com

I could go on

Without being disrespectful Bob, some off that is absolute garbage, for context I’m involved in building Offshore Windfarms.

 

[PJ87]

Without being disrespectful Bob, some off that is absolute garbage, for context I’m involved in building Offshore Windfarms.

How is that going ATM? Is the demand increasing constantly?

 

[AddisonRoad]

Energy prices continue to be high here - you can talk about wind farms as much as you want, but fossil fuels are more effective. It's a shame we're going backward in terms of energy policy when the USA has cheap gas and energy due to a huge increase in fracking over the past 2 years.

 

[Mudball]

watching an interview with India’s transport minister. India is building EVs. Everyone talking about Tesla opening a factory there etc. the reality is that the vast majority of Indian commercial transport incl farming runs on diesel … India also imports oil which is expensive even though it is the world’s fourth largest economy.
So India has announced a push to Hydrogen as well as using higher and higher levels of ethanol. Both are relatively cheap for India to produce. Also last week it announced a major push to Solar. With the land mass of India and the sunshine it gets, this is a major push into renewals. Of course it is against the narrative for western oil producers.

 

[ColchesterFC]

How is that going ATM? Is the demand increasing constantly?

Vattenfall pulled the plug on two wind farms off the Norfolk coast having already completed the pre-installation surveys, due to rising costs so it's not all smooth sailing.

Giant windfarm off Norfolk coast halted due to spiralling costs

Swedish energy giant Vattenfall says costs have climbed 40% due to rise in global gas prices

www.google.com

Although they have since sold the licenses to RWE for £1.1 billion so there are still companies looking to invest.

RWE Buys Vattenfall's Norfolk Trio for EUR 1.1 Billion, Restarts Paused Norfolk Boreas Project

RWE will acquire the three offshore wind projects Vattenfall has been developing in the 4.2 GW Norfolk Zone in the UK for GBP 963 million (approximately EUR 1.1 billion). The new project owner will resume the development of the Norfolk Boreas offshore wind farm that Vattenfall paused in July...

www.offshorewind.biz

Edit - apologies it was 1.1 billion euros not pounds.

 

[jim8flog]

Well Tesla reported its quarterly numbers and it has missed market expectations. Every EV maker is down.. are we on top of an ev bubble

TESLA SHARES DOWN 45% $TSLA

RIVIAN SHARES DOWN 81% $RIVN

NIO SHARES DOWN 85% $NIO

LUCID SHARES DOWN 94% $TSLA

FISKER SHARES DOWN 95% $FSR

That's the Trump effect - there is no such thing as global warming.

 

[bobmac]

Without being disrespectful Bob, some off that is absolute garbage, for context I’m involved in building Offshore Windfarms.

Ok, show me 6 sites that say fossil fuels are cheaper than renewable energy

 

[Neilds]

Ok, show me 6 sites that say fossil fuels are cheaper than renewable energy

Cheaper doesn’t always mean just the initial cost - there was a lot in the press about wind turbines being made from composite material that will take longer to decompose than nuclear waste. I think that is the type of point that is trying to be made in the argument

 

[Mudball]

That's the Trump effect - there is no such thing as global warming.

.. and also wind farms kill birds ..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ok, show me 6 sites that say fossil fuels are cheaper than renewable energy

In what way do you mean “cheaper” ?

Is that cheaper to the common folk

 

[AddisonRoad]

Ok, show me 6 sites that say fossil fuels are cheaper than renewable energy

What do you mean?? Of course they're cheaper. A lot of the articles claiming that renewables are cheaper are using the price of fossil fuels after carbon taxes are factored in; not the underlying cost of the fossil fuels. The figures also assume that no coal, natural gas, etc., plants exist in the country and that everything has to be built from scratch, which isn't based in reality. Likewise, wind and solar are unpredictable sources of energy and are only viable because the government guarantees a price when it's produced, which is in effect special treatment (aka, another subsidy). You're wrong!

 

[PJ87]

What do you mean?? Of course they're cheaper. A lot of the articles claiming that renewables are cheaper are using the price of fossil fuels after carbon taxes are factored in; not the underlying cost of the fossil fuels. The figures also assume that no coal, natural gas, etc., plants exist in the country and that everything has to be built from scratch, which isn't based in reality. Likewise, wind and solar are unpredictable sources of energy and are only viable because the government guarantees a price when it's produced, which is in effect special treatment (aka, another subsidy). You're wrong!

Sorry but the reason electric is so high ATM is because it is linked to the price of wholesale gas. Due to government subs for the gas and oil industry.

The renewable production last year was the highest ever for the national grid and if it was uncoupled from gas costs we would see cheaper bills

Why does the price of gas drive electricity prices | Good Energy

We look at why the price of gas affects the prices of renewable energy and what this means for companies like us.

www.goodenergy.co.uk

 

[AddisonRoad]

Sorry but the reason electric is so high ATM is because it is linked to the price of wholesale gas. Due to government subs for the gas and oil industry.

The renewable production last year was the highest ever for the national grid and if it was uncoupled from gas costs we would see cheaper bills

Why does the price of gas drive electricity prices | Good Energy

We look at why the price of gas affects the prices of renewable energy and what this means for companies like us.

www.goodenergy.co.uk

Nevermind. I'll stay away from this. Hopefully, one day you're forced to fully rely on these renewables you seem to think are so effective. I hope the rest of us can avoid it!

 

[PJ87]

Nevermind. I'll stay away from this. Hopefully, one day you're forced to fully rely on these renewables you seem to think are so effective. I hope the rest of us can avoid it!

They are very effective, however our grid is poorly maintained and the renewable energy is wasted when the grid can't handle it.

They are upgrading the grid (battery storage) to store the green energy produced to allow more balancing.

We need more nuclear built alone side renewables and phase out coal completely then start to turn down the gas.