The all things EV chat thread

[Hobbit]

Once again half the details warped to suit your point of view.

@Mudball is getting a 7kw charger installed and then he will be moving over to a lower tariff that enables him to charge his car at 9p a kw instead of 29p a kw currently

He is also getting solar which could top him up

However his 9p instantly cuts his £8 for 40 miles to £2.60 for 40 miles which is half the cost of your car.

He also can fill up whilst he sleeps.

We get it. It doesn't suit you. Congratulations

I’m not dissing your argument, and your set up for charging works very well for you. A few questions…

There is the price difference, purchased or PCP’d, between petrol/diesel cars and EV’s. When that difference is divided into the running costs, what does that take the cost to?

You are paying £2.60 per 40 miles based on your charging regime at home. There will be occasions when you need to charge outside of the cheap periods and charge elsewhere. What does that do to the £2.60?

You run a second car, which you use for longer, family journeys which means you can optimise costs. What are the urban cycle costs for people that only have an EV?

Does it cost to have a charging system set up at home and if yes, when added into the calculation what does it do to the £2.60?

My gut feel is you’ve shown how cheap it can be as a best case scenario, and others have shown the worst case scenario whereas the reality is somewhere inbetween.

 

[PJ87]

I’m not dissing your argument, and your set up for charging works very well for you. A few questions…

There is the price difference, purchased or PCP’d, between petrol/diesel cars and EV’s. When that difference is divided into the running costs, what does that take the cost to?

You are paying £2.60 per 40 miles based on your charging regime at home. There will be occasions when you need to charge outside of the cheap periods and charge elsewhere. What does that do to the £2.60?

You run a second car, which you use for longer, family journeys which means you can optimise costs. What are the urban cycle costs for people that only have an EV?

Does it cost to have a charging system set up at home and if yes, when added into the calculation what does it do to the £2.60?

My gut feel is you’ve shown how cheap it can be as a best case scenario, and others have shown the worst case scenario whereas the reality is somewhere inbetween.

Morning hobbit, I have only once in 28,000 miles charged outside of the cheap rate which was November I put a small bump charge before a big journey (which I completed on the one charge then got home recharged it in the cheap rate, didn't need it full next day so charged it over 2 nights cheap rate only) quick add here as I've looked up the cost. That 5kw I bumped into the car cost me £2.12 then I left the car plugged in for 2 nights didn't touch it. It filled up the car with 40kw for £3.65. so total cost of the trip £6 call it (135 miles was motorway, -1 degree)

My lease was a "hot deal" at the time. £273 a month (was before pcping a honda for £300 , petrol) the figures for me are different, I do 50 miles a day at a cost of £2.. on average £40 a month based on 50 miles a day. Ofc I don't work every week but just over a year on those figures £480

Big car we use very little now (3000 miles a year) I fill it up once every 2 months at around £130 a tank

Everything costs money is the reality. A vaste majority of PCP deals include a home charger now as part of the deal to encourage people .. nobody asks how long before you break even on your new kitchen


EVs are nicer for city driving by a mile, in traffic the smoothness in the stop start

however for people who enjoy a car for being a car they enjoy their car and that's their hobby

We could all go out and buy say a ford focus second hand .. covers say 70% of people's requirements in a car. I accept some need pick ups whatever. But the same people could go and get an Aston Martin , or a BMW 5 series or whatever

do we sit down and nit pick how much they spend on their choice over well you could have got that ford focus and suited your lifestyle and been cheaper to insure etc etc over the nicer car (no offence focus drivers there)

I hands down will not buy another ice car out of choice. I will be purchasing a Kia second hand to replace the lease car in December then I'll run the big car until the kids get big enough not to need car seats and we can go 2 ev .. a leaf would suit us with the Kia being the longer journey car

but that said. When the Kia arrives we can do 90% of journeys in it because it's simply bigger than the Corsa. So I'd expect the Kia to do 15000 miles a year and the Alhambra only 1000 miles as we will all be able to fit so going local trips where we don't need to pack the boot with all our rubbish(the Alhambra is like a van for that) we can do in the electric

reality has been in 3 years if one of the kids isn't with us or one adult is missing IE I'm working or Mrs is out. We go out in the EV .

also I'm still yet to need to use a public charger in those 28,000 miles

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There are no indicator stalks, just buttons on the steering wheel. Journalists who have driven the car say it's fine when driving in a straight line but hard to find the buttons when the wheel is turned - so don't expect Tesla drivers to indicate when leaving an island!

This is nothing to do with it being an EV - most of the manufacturers seem to be removing controls to save money.

Volkswagen had such negative feedback from customers that they're going back to physical buttons for their next range of cars.

This is interesting, and hopefully your last point is a good sign. A friend of mine has a Volvo XC40. Really nice car but all the buttons are gone and a touch screen wins the day. His wife refuses to drive that car and even he admits the multiple screen is poor design and distracting.

I'm looking at changing my car at the end of the year. Being this way inclined, I'm already looking. I fancy a Golf but all of the research pushes me towards a Mk 7.5, not the latest Mk 8. All because of the over reliance on touchscreens for basic functions. They've made a problem that didn't exist. If they go back to the Mk7.5 set up, or similar, then that will be a good move.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@pauljames87 out of interest, what is the longest journey you do in your EV? It sounds as though it is used for local, or relatively local journeys only. There and back within the charge range?

 

[PJ87]

@pauljames87 out of interest, what is the longest journey you do in your EV? It sounds as though it is used for local, or relatively local journeys only. There and back within the charge range?

My commute is a 50 mile round trip every day

The longest drive I believe I've done was the 135 trip I posted back in November which I was delighted with because I've done that same trip summer and got there and back with loads left but winter I got back with 10% left considering I say 170 summer 140 miles winter for the cars range I was delighted with it being motorway that it was on my calculations (it was right in that cold snap -1 when I left for the party)

But that's because 99/100 journeys we do are under 150 miles .

We go to the beach that was 100 miles next time when we have more space in an EV we can take that not the big car

Holiday was space

But day to day? Swimming 5 mile round trip

Golf 5 mile round trip

Work 50 mile round trip

My parents 2 mile trip

Her parents 10 miles

As I always say it's what suits your lifestyle.. if you have a home charger and drive under 200 miles a day it's a no brainer

I'd be happy to go further in the Kia when it arrives (range 250) and charge on the road because kids need a stop. We need a stop. I'd happily plug in and charge whilst we had lunch or a wee wee break

 

[TimShady]

£8 for 40 miles, wow, that's not very good.
I pay less than £5 for 40 miles and that takes me mere seconds at any of several fuel stations in my area.
Oh, and once filled, I don't have to bother about refilling for at least three weeks, or 500+ miles, whichever comes sooner.

How much are you paying at the pump?

 

[Hobbit]

I’m on my second hybrid. Our first was a Kia Niro. Loved it. Plenty big enough for 2 of us and more than roomy when we had 4 in + cases. I very reluctantly sold the Kia as Mrs H couldn’t get comfortable with driving it - she needs a booster seat to see over the bonnet but then couldn’t reach the pedals. We’ve now got a Toyota Yaris hybrid. It’s a flying machine, and very economical. The Kia was cheaper than all petrol but the Toyota is ridiculously cheap to run.

I wouldn’t go full EV for 2 reasons. We do a good few road trips throwing an overnight bag in the car, maybe travelling about 3 hours distance. The thought of having to sort out charging points, especially here in a quiet corner of Spain isn’t for me. And my second reason is range. When it gets to around 500km I might reconsider it.

 

[PJ87]

@Hobbit apologies I forgot one very key detail , that 9p tariff you don't have to have. @jim8flog (please correct if I've miss remembered Jim) is with OVO on charge anytime .. which is a 10p flat rate for anything anytime for the car

Where as I use the 4 hour window as it covers my entire house and I fill up the battery to run my house cheap

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I’m on my second hybrid. Our first was a Kia Niro. Loved it. Plenty big enough for 2 of us and more than roomy when we had 4 in + cases. I very reluctantly sold the Kia as Mrs H couldn’t get comfortable with driving it - she needs a booster seat to see over the bonnet but then couldn’t reach the pedals. We’ve now got a Toyota Yaris hybrid. It’s a flying machine, and very economical. The Kia was cheaper than all petrol but the Toyota is ridiculously cheap to run.

I wouldn’t go full EV for 2 reasons. We do a good few road trips throwing an overnight bag in the car, maybe travelling about 3 hours distance. The thought of having to sort out charging points, especially here in a quiet corner of Spain isn’t for me. And my second reason is range. When it gets to around 500km I might reconsider it.

My sister has the same Yaris. She gets high 60's, low 70's in terms of economy. That is brilliant.

It is a shame that potential was not explored further before the full EV route. We do far too many long journeys to go near an EV yet, for the same reasons you express, and a hybrid, charge on the go rather than plug in, would have done us nicely. There are things I don't like about Toyota's but they are really the only one knocking these out so it is largely them or no one. I'm diesel still, next one will be diesel again. I'd prefer not but it's the one that makes sense still for us.

 

[Mudball]

I’m on my second hybrid. Our first was a Kia Niro. Loved it. Plenty big enough for 2 of us and more than roomy when we had 4 in + cases. I very reluctantly sold the Kia as Mrs H couldn’t get comfortable with driving it - she needs a booster seat to see over the bonnet but then couldn’t reach the pedals. We’ve now got a Toyota Yaris hybrid. It’s a flying machine, and very economical. The Kia was cheaper than all petrol but the Toyota is ridiculously cheap to run.

I wouldn’t go full EV for 2 reasons. We do a good few road trips throwing an overnight bag in the car, maybe travelling about 3 hours distance. The thought of having to sort out charging points, especially here in a quiet corner of Spain isn’t for me. And my second reason is range. When it gets to around 500km I might reconsider it.

Time to get a new wife or a full EV…. You can have both.. even supercar blondie has gone EV… you know you want xxx

 

[larmen]

What about just standing around?

I mean, I would want a car that I can drive 80 miles to airport, park there for 14 days, and then going back 80 miles without charging and worrying.
A journey is fine, you recharge when you need, but the least the last thing people want to do is coming of a plane wanting to go home and find a charger around Luton or Stanstead.

My electric moped/scooter has a 4 kWh battery. I go to work and it has 73% left, I finish the day of work and the battery is at 69%, 4% used just standing there and trying to connect to the cloud from an underground carpark.

 

[clubchamp98]

This is interesting, and hopefully your last point is a good sign. A friend of mine has a Volvo XC40. Really nice car but all the buttons are gone and a touch screen wins the day. His wife refuses to drive that car and even he admits the multiple screen is poor design and distracting.

I'm looking at changing my car at the end of the year. Being this way inclined, I'm already looking. I fancy a Golf but all of the research pushes me towards a Mk 7.5, not the latest Mk 8. All because of the over reliance on touchscreens for basic functions. They've made a problem that didn't exist. If they go back to the Mk7.5 set up, or similar, then that will be a good move.

I bought a golf 8 and half the things on it would not work.
The worst was a slider for the volume on the stereo it just did not work.
The tech said there was nothing wrong with it ,this happened a lot.

We found out that because I play guitar the hard skin on my finger tips ( left hand) just didn’t register on the touch sensitive pads it was a nightmare.

My mate is a VW salesman he told me ( the golf 8 is the most returned car ever to the dealer for tech problems)
The golf 7.5 was the best car I ever owned fabulous car !

i don’t like the way cars are going with to much tech and less input from the driver.!

 

[Fade and Die]

Morning hobbit, I have only once in 28,000 miles charged outside of the cheap rate which was November I put a small bump charge before a big journey (which I completed on the one charge then got home recharged it in the cheap rate, didn't need it full next day so charged it over 2 nights cheap rate only) quick add here as I've looked up the cost. That 5kw I bumped into the car cost me £2.12 then I left the car plugged in for 2 nights didn't touch it. It filled up the car with 40kw for £3.65. so total cost of the trip £6 call it (135 miles was motorway, -1 degree)

My lease was a "hot deal" at the time. £273 a month (was before pcping a honda for £300 , petrol) the figures for me are different, I do 50 miles a day at a cost of £2.. on average £40 a month based on 50 miles a day. Ofc I don't work every week but just over a year on those figures £480

Big car we use very little now (3000 miles a year) I fill it up once every 2 months at around £130 a tank

Everything costs money is the reality. A vaste majority of PCP deals include a home charger now as part of the deal to encourage people .. nobody asks how long before you break even on your new kitchen


EVs are nicer for city driving by a mile, in traffic the smoothness in the stop start

however for people who enjoy a car for being a car they enjoy their car and that's their hobby

We could all go out and buy say a ford focus second hand .. covers say 70% of people's requirements in a car. I accept some need pick ups whatever. But the same people could go and get an Aston Martin , or a BMW 5 series or whatever

do we sit down and nit pick how much they spend on their choice over well you could have got that ford focus and suited your lifestyle and been cheaper to insure etc etc over the nicer car (no offence focus drivers there)

I hands down will not buy another ice car out of choice. I will be purchasing a Kia second hand to replace the lease car in December then I'll run the big car until the kids get big enough not to need car seats and we can go 2 ev .. a leaf would suit us with the Kia being the longer journey car

but that said. When the Kia arrives we can do 90% of journeys in it because it's simply bigger than the Corsa. So I'd expect the Kia to do 15000 miles a year and the Alhambra only 1000 miles as we will all be able to fit so going local trips where we don't need to pack the boot with all our rubbish(the Alhambra is like a van for that) we can do in the electric

reality has been in 3 years if one of the kids isn't with us or one adult is missing IE I'm working or Mrs is out. We go out in the EV .

also I'm still yet to need to use a public charger in those 28,000 miles

Agree with this 100%, its perfect for city driving if you have a home charger. for other journeys pure EV is just not good enough yet. I drove my X-Trail Hybrid to and from Cumbria over the new year, it was spot on, didn't even stop on the way back and still had 180 miles left in the tank. Averaging 48mpg which for a big car with a 1500cc engine is brilliant.

Trying to get a balanced view is difficult, with the endless back and forth of EV cheerleading and EV haters, I watched a video the other which i thought was pretty balanced. The guy is a big fan of EVs driving one himself (as well as a big diesel ) but he raised some very valid points...

EVs are a bit of an "elitists" thing, they are expensive and not many (hate to use the expression) poorer people have access to off road home charging, so they would have to use the ridiculously expensive public chargers. They also might not have the facility to set up various accounts to use public chargers. (how many take cash??)

They are not particularly disabled friendly... cars are vital for the disabled and the process of hooking up a public charger can be difficult and many of these stations are unmanned. (As well as expensive)

Their reputation for fires is not good... I know its been discussed on here ad-infinitum, but the big difference between a ICE and a EV car fire is the difficulty in putting out the lithium batteries. What if some underground car parks or ferries/Eurotunnel start to ban them?

Its been discussed that Insurance could be going up for EVs because of the increased times vehicles are off road and the lack of parts or competent engineers to work on them. This would only increase if they started being restricted where you could park them.

Now the whole worry about EVs going up in flames and vehicles not getting insured will be ancient history once they roll out legit solid-state batteries, (which for some reason is always a decade away) However once they do come out, every other EV on the planet becomes old tech and pretty worthless... Maybe in a few years time we will be looking at Lithium batteries like we look at other 1st Gen kit?

They are definitely the future in one form of the other but we should accept that they are not the panacea some think they are.

 

[bobmac]

When it gets to around 500km I might reconsider it.

VW ID.4...518km

Skoda Enyaq...520km

VW ID. 5...526km

Kia EV6...527km

Hyundai Ioniq 6...543km

Tesla Model 3 long range...560km.

Tesla Model S long range plus...651km.

And the list continues to grow

 

[Neilds]

VW ID.4...518km

Skoda Enyaq...520km

VW ID. 5...526km

Kia EV6...527km

Hyundai Ioniq 6...543km

Tesla Model 3 long range...560km.

Tesla Model S long range plus...651km.

And the list continues to grow

And real life figures?

And this isn't just aimed at EV, my diesel is meant to do 70+ mpg but never got above 65 in real life

 

[jim8flog]

@Hobbit apologies I forgot one very key detail , that 9p tariff you don't have to have. @jim8flog (please correct if I've miss remembered Jim) is with OVO on charge anytime .. which is a 10p flat rate for anything anytime for the car

Where as I use the 4 hour window as it covers my entire house and I fill up the battery to run my house cheap

With OVO and an OHME charger (and others) you give control of the charger* to a daughter company of OVO. They will then charge the car up when there is reduced demand on the supply.

* Basically you set up the requirement for when you need the car to be charged by on the charger (via an app)
You can override if you want to start charge immediately.

 

[jim8flog]

And real life figures?

And this isn't just aimed at EV, my diesel is meant to do 70+ mpg but never got above 65 in real life

When I had a diesel the quoted 65-70 meant about 50-55 in real life.
Similarly the quoted figure for my petrol car was 44.3 - 65.9 mpg and I never bettered 40
The trouble with quoted figures has always been that are gathered using a rolling road inside a factory.

One of the real life problems with electric vehicles is that unlike petrol and diesel cars there is no requirement to quote the figures for different driving conditions.

 

[larmen]

I have yet to see a Fisker in real life? Any reviews yet

Just popped up on my youtube now

 

[bobmac]

And real life figures?

And this isn't just aimed at EV, my diesel is meant to do 70+ mpg but never got above 65 in real life

Obviously lower.
But that also depends on driving style, terrain, weather, motorway etc. Not to mention you get less range if you thrash it or tow a trailer/caravan.
Plus, who drives over 300 miles without stopping...not many.
And to those who do drive over 300 miles without stopping, buy an ICE car.
As I've always said, buy what you need/want...but don't base your decision on out of date info.

​

 

[bobmac]

Just popped up on my youtube now

708km of range