The all things EV chat thread

[jim8flog]

EVs are a bit of an "elitists" thing, they are expensive and not many (hate to use the expression) poorer people have access to off road home charging, so they would have to use the ridiculously expensive public chargers. They also might not have the facility to set up various accounts to use public chargers. (how many take cash??)

They are not particularly disabled friendly... cars are vital for the disabled and the process of hooking up a public charger can be difficult and many of these stations are unmanned. (As well as expensive)

There are some chargers around that require an app (most stupid one I have found is in my local Tesco where the chargers are outside of the stores WiFi range).
Every other public charger I have used takes a standard bank card (you can get a reduced rate if you use an app)

As to charges using a CCS charge (the high current ones) are about the same as putting petrol in to a car (around 80p/kwh)

Charges do vary e.g Tesco

28p/kWh to use their 7 kW chargers, 40p/kWh for their 22 kW chargers and 50p/kWh for their 50 kW chargers.

I partially agree with the comment about disability, particularly if it is an arm/hand problem, the cables are heavy and awkward particularly on CCS charges but so are petrol hoses. I have filled up at many a garage where there would be no one to help.

 

[Fade and Die]

There are some chargers around that require an app (most stupid one I have found is in my local Tesco where the chargers are outside of the stores WiFi range).
Every other public charger I have used takes a standard bank card (you can get a reduced rate if you use an app)

As to charges using a CCS charge (the high current ones) are about the same as putting petrol in to a car (around 80p/kwh)

Charges do vary e.g Tesco

28p/kWh to use their 7 kW chargers, 40p/kWh for their 22 kW chargers and 50p/kWh for their 50 kW chargers.

I partially agree with the comment about disability, particularly if it is an arm/hand problem, the cables are heavy and awkward particularly on CCS charges but so are petrol hoses. I have filled up at many a garage where there would be no one to help.

I think the point about none of them taking cash is more valid than many think. (away from the forum )

Go to any Lidl or Aldi and the queue for the Tills or machines that take cash is 3 time longer than the Card payment ones. Cash is still used extensively by the less well off.

 

[cliveb]

Some of the things I've been reading recently have alarmed me.

The battery pack is often right underneath the car.
This makes sense for COG reasons, but it's vulnerable to knocks and scrapes from potholes, etc.
Why not fit a protective shield (like sump guards on rally cars)? Probably because of the weight penalty - EVs are already far too heavy.

And it appears that far too often, the entire battery pack is being written off when there's a little dink in it. People seem to be scared that it MIGHT have compromised the battery's safety, so they just replace the whole thing. This is a catastrophic waste of scarce resources.

It's all very well saying that EVs have fewer parts and so they are easier to service and repair. But one of those "simple parts" is the battery, and it's equivalent to the entire engine in an ICE car. Imagine if when the head gasket goes on an ICE car, they insisted on replacing the entire engine?

The industry needs to get on top of this. Battery packs should be easily repairable, ie. have the necessary diagnostics to identify which cells are bad and the ability to replace those cells. We can't sleepwalk our way into allowing cars effectively becoming disposable items like phones.

The car industry is global, so it would be difficult for governments to mandate this (although perhaps if the EU and USA agreed on a set of repairability requirements, that would do the job).

 

[Piece]

Time to get a new wife or a full EV…. You can have both.. even supercar blondie has gone EV… you know you want xxx

I'm skeptical of high profile YouTubers; they tend to promote firms they have a association with, often sponsorship lead. Six months later she'll probably move it on for the next gen stuff.

Three of my regular car YouTubers also very recently test drove and favourably reviewed this exact car model. No blame on anyone, it's a commercial world we're in

 

[Piece]

Just popped up on my youtube now

Beautiful.

And so is the car.

 

[Mudball]

I'm skeptical of high profile YouTubers; they tend to promote firms they have a association with, often sponsorship lead. Six months later she'll probably move it on for the next gen stuff.

Three of my regular car YouTubers also very recently test drove and favourably reviewed this exact car model. No blame on anyone, it's a commercial world we're in

i dont follow many car folks.. the only is probably Matt Watson from Carwow.. I sometimes watch blondie - because everything in her videos is beyond my reach..

 

[Mudball]

Just popped up on my youtube now

interesting one...
... some of them are gimmicky, but others a good improvement on current fleet. There is some fresh thinking e.g. solar on the roof. I think the new Prius is also going to do that.

things like 'California mode' are unlikely to be used. Years ago i had a Volvo X60 thru work. It came with a sun roof. I opened it on the first day. And then opened it on the day i returned it - 4 years later. Not for this country.

.. but overall looks like an interesting addition to the EV market

 

[bobmac]

Some of the things I've been reading recently have alarmed me.

The battery pack is often right underneath the car.
This makes sense for COG reasons, but it's vulnerable to knocks and scrapes from potholes, etc.
Why not fit a protective shield (like sump guards on rally cars)? Probably because of the weight penalty - EVs are already far too heavy.

And it appears that far too often, the entire battery pack is being written off when there's a little dink in it. People seem to be scared that it MIGHT have compromised the battery's safety, so they just replace the whole thing. This is a catastrophic waste of scarce resources.

It's all very well saying that EVs have fewer parts and so they are easier to service and repair. But one of those "simple parts" is the battery, and it's equivalent to the entire engine in an ICE car. Imagine if when the head gasket goes on an ICE car, they insisted on replacing the entire engine?

The industry needs to get on top of this. Battery packs should be easily repairable, ie. have the necessary diagnostics to identify which cells are bad and the ability to replace those cells. We can't sleepwalk our way into allowing cars effectively becoming disposable items like phones.

The car industry is global, so it would be difficult for governments to mandate this (although perhaps if the EU and USA agreed on a set of repairability requirements, that would do the job).

Repairing or Replacing an EV Battery - EVfriendly

Repairing or Replacing an EV Battery According to consumer reports, battery life is the number one concern for owners of electric vehicles, or those considering purchasing an EV. Uncertainty about the life expectancy of a battery is a common barrier to purchasing an EV. And, not surprisingly...

www.evfriendly.ca

 

[jim8flog]

I think the point about none of them taking cash is more valid than many think. (away from the forum )

Go to any Lidl or Aldi and the queue for the Tills or machines that take cash is 3 time longer than the Card payment ones. Cash is still used extensively by the less well off.

ah but therein lies the long term problem with the switch to electric the less well off will probably never be able to afford electric cars or those that can will probably have extreme range issues with the older batteries.

One local Lidl has 2 cash or card machines against 4 for card only self service hence the longer queues but those with cash can also still use the manned tills.

The other one has manned tills only.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

We can't sleepwalk our way into allowing cars effectively becoming disposable items like phones.

But we have already. All to often the comment "buy it on PCP and chuck it back after 3 years" get trouted out. We see it on here all the time. We need to go back to buying and longer term ownership. PCP and constant changing of cars is hardly enviromentally good.

 

[cliveb]

Repairing or Replacing an EV Battery - EVfriendly

Repairing or Replacing an EV Battery According to consumer reports, battery life is the number one concern for owners of electric vehicles, or those considering purchasing an EV. Uncertainty about the life expectancy of a battery is a common barrier to purchasing an EV. And, not surprisingly...

www.evfriendly.ca

I took a look at that page, and watched the video on it.
All it does is state that it is possible to repair an EV battery.

The problem is that it isn't happening.
Batteries that are repairable are being replaced - at extreme cost to the consumer.
This has to stop.

 

[PJ87]

I took a look at that page, and watched the video on it.
All it does is state that it is possible to repair an EV battery.

The problem is that it isn't happening.
Batteries that are repairable are being replaced - at extreme cost to the consumer.
This has to stop.

The article I read (sorry was a week ago I'll find it sometime) laid the blame at the car companies not giving the parts out easily

It can be done and can be done cheaply and safely but the car companies are being next to useless

You wonder if a company with a vested interest in ICE is delaying the switch as much as possible

 

[Hobbit]

The article I read (sorry was a week ago I'll find it sometime) laid the blame at the car companies not giving the parts out easily

It can be done and can be done cheaply and safely but the car companies are being next to useless

You wonder if a company with a vested interest in ICE is delaying the switch as much as possible

It’s not just car companies. Swapping modules rather than an individual component happens in most industries. Benn there, done it and had to try and justify it to customers even though I thought it was wrong.

 

[PJ87]

It’s not just car companies. Swapping modules rather than an individual component happens in most industries. Benn there, done it and had to try and justify it to customers even though I thought it was wrong.

The article I found (which I will find again soon) wasn't saying about modules it was simple clips or casing that is easy to replace and doesn't affect the battery module .. it's the fact the companies arent making them easy to source

The Real Reason EV Repairs Are So Expensive

Insurers are demanding perfectly good EVs be scrapped, or hiking repair bills from $1,000 to $15,000 for seemingly no good reason. There’s a solution, and it’s in the hands of car companies.

www.wired.com

 

[Mudball]

The article I found (which I will find again soon) wasn't saying about modules it was simple clips or casing that is easy to replace and doesn't affect the battery module .. it's the fact the companies arent making them easy to source

The Real Reason EV Repairs Are So Expensive

Insurers are demanding perfectly good EVs be scrapped, or hiking repair bills from $1,000 to $15,000 for seemingly no good reason. There’s a solution, and it’s in the hands of car companies.

www.wired.com

It is not just the batteries

My front bumper has a tiny stone chip.. it’s due to go to the body shop for a touch up.

Apparently it is so full of sensors for self driving/parking that the body shop cannot repair it… needs a new bumper!!

 

[PJ87]

It is not just the batteries

My front bumper has a tiny stone chip.. it’s due to go to the body shop for a touch up.

Apparently it is so full of sensors for self driving/parking that the body shop cannot repair it… needs a new bumper!!

This is where the car industry need to be clamped down on full stop by governments

 

[Mudball]

Any reason you don't just charge to 100%? The 80% "rule" has been disproven now. I've run mine to 100% all time 3 years no battery degrading at all

Basically the battery is never 100% .. it tells you it's 100% but it has reserve above it and below 0% so if it does degrade it's still 100%

For example mines 50kw battery 45kw usable

80% rule is for fast chargers because after 80% it can't handle the faster rate and slows down to a slower speed of 7-11kw anyways do zero point using after 80% but at home plug it in let it charge

Quick add when you have your 7kw charger 80% will be easier to manage but as you have your 3 pin ATM just let to charge to full then you have more wiggle room

The 80% was recommended by the manufacturer… most reviewers say 20-80% as the ideal zone ..

I need to charge mine tonight.. as it is via 3 pin, I thought I will up the target. When I do it via the app, this is what it says >>

(Does home 7Kwh fall under ‘fast charging’)

 

[PJ87]

The 80% was recommended by the manufacturer… most reviewers say 20-80% as the ideal zone ..

I need to charge mine tonight.. as it is via 3 pin, I thought I will up the target. When I do it via the app, this is what it says >>

(Does home 7Kwh fall under ‘fast charging’)

View attachment 51301

Yeah fast charging I can understand, but on the 3 pin no point limiting it

Until your 7kw is installed id up to 100% to make it more workable , you get to 100 do your day then if you needed to go somewhere else without charging you got that reserve

 

[Neilds]

But we have already. All to often the comment "buy it on PCP and chuck it back after 3 years" get trouted out. We see it on here all the time. We need to go back to buying and longer term ownership. PCP and constant changing of cars is hardly enviromentally good.

I’m not sure the 3 year old, ex PCP cars get left in drawers like old mobiles

 

[PJ87]

I’m not sure the 3 year old, ex PCP cars get left in drawers like old mobiles

What happens when economies are built on this .. creates jobs etc

Rather than come up with solutions and create jobs that way keep flogging a dead horse

It's the way of the world