The all things EV chat thread

[PJ87]

Hyundai and Kia recall nearly 92,000 vehicles and urge owners to park them outside

Hyundai and Kia are telling the owners of nearly 92,000 vehicles in the U.S. to park them outside because an electronic controller in an oil pump can overheat and cause fires

www.independent.co.uk

Safe to say all cars are so technical now that the smallest fault can have big impact

 

[jim8flog]

Websites can be very unreliable tho, who would supply your energy. Do you have a smart meter, would you charge overnight at home?

If you moved onto an EV tariff for example that 7p per mile becomes 3p per mile

It still makes buying an EV a very poor monetary choice.

My existing supplier OVO does do charge at any time for 10p /kwh

So a saving of about £700pa which means over 10 years to recover the additional cost. However having watched quite a few TV programmes about EVs with the same car I probably would also have to change the battery pack* at a cost of around 6k.

*One of the programmes I watched tested a 7 year old EV and the distance range had dropped to under 40 miles per charge. So it should also be remembered that as a car ages the cost per mile increases with an EV whereas a petrol will barely show any difference.

 

[PJ87]

It still makes buying an EV a very poor monetary choice.

My existing supplier OVO does do charge at any time for 10p /kwh

So a saving of about £700pa which means over 10 years to recover the additional cost. However having watched quite a few TV programmes about EVs with the same car I probably would also have to change the battery pack* at a cost of around 6k.

*One of the programmes I watched tested a 7 year old EV and the distance range had dropped to under 40 miles per charge. So it should also be remembered that as a car ages the cost per mile increases with an EV whereas a petrol will barely show any difference.

You will not have to replace the battery pack, there are Teslas out there with 300,000 miles on the clock..these "programmes" are nothing but scare mongering

If you lost 40 miles in say 7 years you need to think does it still suit my daily needs?

The car I want does 250 miles. Even if it degraded to 125 miles I can do work and back twice which makes it worth it

Also EVs have battery warranties of 8 years so if they do degrade badly they are replaced for free

I have had my car 2.5 years and it's tech 3 years old as it took so long to arrive

I have driven 24000 miles in 2.5 years and each tank has always been the same 175 miles summer 140 miles winter , not a hint of degrading

Modern EVs are so well built with battery management that keeps some of the cells unused to rotate them to avoid degrading

Do electric car batteries need replacing? Is it expensive?

Electric vehicle batteries shouldn’t need replacing, but what’s the situation if they do? TG answers your burning battery queries

www.topgear.com

Even top gear seem to agree that they will last up to 20 years before even the thought of replacing

I am going to add one caveat to this

Say it takes 10 years to repay your costs then after 15 years you need a new battery at 6k, realistically you could have the car another 15 years before needing to replace again, the cars have little moving parts compared, so 6k after 15 years would be cheaper than replacing the car entirely


My parents still have the same Toyota's from 2011 , both hyrbids, both still on original batteries no signs of issues

 

[jim8flog]

You will not have to replace the battery pack, there are Teslas out there with 300,000 miles on the clock..these "programmes" are nothing but scare mongering

If you lost 40 miles in say 7 years you need to think does it still suit my daily needs?

The car I want does 250 miles. Even if it degraded to 125 miles I can do work and back twice which makes it worth it

Also EVs have battery warranties of 8 years so if they do degrade badly they are replaced for free

I have had my car 2.5 years and it's tech 3 years old as it took so long to arrive

I have driven 24000 miles in 2.5 years and each tank has always been the same 175 miles summer 140 miles winter , not a hint of degrading

Modern EVs are so well built with battery management that keeps some of the cells unused to rotate them to avoid degrading

View attachment 48796

Do electric car batteries need replacing? Is it expensive?

Electric vehicle batteries shouldn’t need replacing, but what’s the situation if they do? TG answers your burning battery queries

www.topgear.com

Even top gear seem to agree that they will last up to 20 years before even the thought of replacing

"
"these "programmes" are nothing but scare mongering"

The programme I watched was a doing 'real life' testing

They took a brand new vehicle
a 3 year old vehicle
and a 7 year old vehicle
Drove them over a range of road types including motor ways and then showed the results.

Top Gear only ever test top of the range vehicles and no doubt Teslas probably do well.

If it does degrade to 125 per charge then you are doubling the running cost which is the point I was making.

 

[PJ87]

"
"these "programmes" are nothing but scare mongering"

The programme I watched was a doing 'real life' testing

They took a brand new vehicle
a 3 year old vehicle
and a 7 year old vehicle
Drove them over a range of road types including motor ways and then showed the results.

Top Gear only ever test top of the range vehicles and no doubt Teslas probably do well.

If it does degrade to 125 per charge then you are doubling the running cost which is the point I was making.

Indeed but so long as it suits my lifestyle im not bothered about a bit of degrading , and that would have to be after the warranty wore off after 4 years (second hand EV) that was very extreme example .. I'd be surprised if it dropped below 200 miles before 10 year mark


I think you replied before my caveat

If you change the battery every 15 years you are still quids in and wouldn't need to replace the car, 10 years would get your break even then buy the battery 5 years later and break even at year 20 and won't need to do it again until 10 more years .. if it even failed

As I said my parents are still both on original hybrid batteries after 12 years

In my example break even within 5 years due to milage and then if I had to replace the battery at 10 years I'd of saved enough in fuel to cover that and have a battery that lasts another 15-20 years

 

[doublebogey7]

"
"these "programmes" are nothing but scare mongering"

The programme I watched was a doing 'real life' testing

They took a brand new vehicle
a 3 year old vehicle
and a 7 year old vehicle
Drove them over a range of road types including motor ways and then showed the results.

Top Gear only ever test top of the range vehicles and no doubt Teslas probably do well.

If it does degrade to 125 per charge then you are doubling the running cost which is the point I was making.

How are you doubling the running costs. If battery is degraded, surely , it will simply not take the charge. Efficiency remains the same. In other words it's like halfing the capacity of your fuel tank.

 

[PJ87]

How are you doubling the running costs. If battery is degraded, surely , it will simply not take the charge. Efficiency remains the same. In other words it's like halfing the capacity of your fuel tank.

No I believe you are doubling your costs as it would take the charge but the same charge in kw would go less distance

I believe anyways

Edit I can't find a definitive answer to this

Nearest I've found is it will take longer to charge and hold less charge

 

[PJ87]

How are you doubling the running costs. If battery is degraded, surely , it will simply not take the charge. Efficiency remains the same. In other words it's like halfing the capacity of your fuel tank.

@jim8flog interesting! Have just asked one of my more scientific friends he confirms this is correct

Your running costs don't go up, they stay the same. Your capacity drops , you can only fill to 50% for example but you carry the other 50% empty

That 50% still uses the same miles per kw so if in my extreme example of 50% degraded I get 125 miles it still costs the same pence per mile

Have to say I didn't know that

 

[Beezerk]

Been staying with my manager all week who drives a Tesla, lovely car and on the way back from the factory today he demonstrated the sportier drivjng mode.
I think I lost some fillings when he put his foot down

 

[Neilds]

Quick question for those EV owners on here:
What is the real life tyre and brake usage? Heard lots of stories about the extra weight of EVs and lack of engine braking causing more rapid wear on the tyres and brakes - is this true?

 

[PJ87]

Quick question for those EV owners on here:
What is the real life tyre and brake usage? Heard lots of stories about the extra weight of EVs and lack of engine braking causing more rapid wear on the tyres and brakes - is this true?

Brakes I haven't replaced or been told they need replacing. I dont use my pads as much as I use the regen braking to slow down ( which is stronger than engine braking)

Tyres I'm 2.5 years in, 24,000 miles still plenty of life left in them

 

[bobmac]

*One of the programmes I watched tested a 7 year old EV and the distance range had dropped to under 40 miles per charge. So it should also be remembered that as a car ages the cost per mile increases with an EV whereas a petrol will barely show any difference.

The majority of EVs come with an 8 year/100,000 mile guarantee

How long do electric car batteries last? | BuyaCar

www.buyacar.co.uk

 

[jim8flog]

The majority of EVs come with an 8 year/100,000 mile guarantee

How long do electric car batteries last? | BuyaCar

www.buyacar.co.uk

From your link (having worked in insurance for years the small print is important)

Predominantly these promise that should a battery’s maximum capacity fall below a set level (usually around 70%) the manufacturer will replace or repair the unit for you. It is important to note that not all cars come with a maximum allowed degradation level (loss of capacity) so make sure you are happy with the cover provided by the manufacturer before you buy. Otherwise it's possible that how far you can travel per charge could drop and drop and the manufacturer could refuse to cover the cost of replacing the batteries.

That link also provides a list of cars that do not have this warranty surprisingly including 2 Tesla models

 

[cliveb]

From your link (having worked in insurance for years the small print is important)

Predominantly these promise that should a battery’s maximum capacity fall below a set level (usually around 70%) the manufacturer will replace or repair the unit for you. It is important to note that not all cars come with a maximum allowed degradation level (loss of capacity) so make sure you are happy with the cover provided by the manufacturer before you buy. Otherwise it's possible that how far you can travel per charge could drop and drop and the manufacturer could refuse to cover the cost of replacing the batteries.

That link also provides a list of cars that do not have this warranty surprisingly including 2 Tesla models

In the interest of balance, we should also recognise that no manufacturer that I'm aware of gives a warranty of any kind that an ICE engine will maintain its power output over time.

 

[PJ87]

In the interest of balance, we should also recognise that no manufacturer that I'm aware of gives a warranty of any kind that an ICE engine will maintain its power output over time.

A very valid point. Cars drop off efficiency over time however in balance because their milage is so great it's hardly noticeable

Same with their winter drop off in fuel , more noticeable in ev because of the shorter range to start

 

[bobmac]

That link also provides a list of cars that do not have this warranty surprisingly including 2 Tesla models

You'll have to help me out with this.

 

[jim8flog]

You'll have to help me out with this.

the article that you linked to has a list of all the cars that do and do not come with a state of health battery warranty. It is near the end of article. Some surprising do nots such Audi, BMW and Volkswagen.

 

[PJ87]

the article that you linked to has a list of all the cars that do and do not come with a state of health battery warranty. It is near the end of article. Some surprising do nots such Audi, BMW and Volkswagen.

Plenty that do tho? And I never understand why people buy cars with short warranties .. as they seem so worried about them breaking

IE standard 3 year ones rather than Kia 7 year ones ..

Says more about car manufacturers to me that they don't rate their cars to last the long warranty.

 

[bobmac]

the article that you linked to has a list of all the cars that do and do not come with a state of health battery warranty. It is near the end of article. Some surprising do nots such Audi, BMW and Volkswagen.

Yes, I know that.
Except Audi, BMW and VW are on the list
I meant your reference to 2 Tesla models that don't have the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, I know that.
Except Audi, BMW and VW are on the list
I meant your reference to 2 Tesla models that don't have the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty

The point that was being discussed was battery life known as state of health (SOH) the warranty for this is the third column

Tesla Model S	8 years/unlimited mileage	Battery degradation not covered	4 years/50,000 miles
Tesla Model X	8 years/unlimited mileage	Battery degradation not covered	4 years/50,000 miles