The all things EV chat thread

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You just swap cars in a convenient stopping place. Get out of one and step into another, the interchangeability of driverless cars is one of their great appeals.

We are on the same page…?.

My hunch is probably just the step before driverless, but the model is essentially the same.

I have to drive 400 miles. I hire a fully charged hire car and drive to a changeover point within range, get out and either take a short break or simply straightaway get into another fully charged car to complete my journey or to drive to the next changeover point. Meanwhile my Mrs has our own little EV to do whatever she needs to do locally. As a result we need only own one car, thereby reducing local congestion and our ownership costs.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This is what Nio and a couple of other manufacturers are working on. A battery that unbolts from beneath the chassis and can be swapped out in under 10 mins with a fresh one.

The removed battery is then queued in the “battery station” for recharging and reuse probably the next day.

How do they get around the issue of someone being left with an old battery with reduced range? I could buy a new car, drive a long stretch, change battery and be given one that has done 100k already. Meanwhile my lovely new battery goes elsewhere. My 300 mile range has suddenly become 150 miles. Do we constantly keep changing batteries?

 

[GreiginFife]

How do they get around the issue of someone being left with an old battery with reduced range? I could buy a new car, drive a long stretch, change battery and be given one that has done 100k already. Meanwhile my lovely new battery goes elsewhere. My 300 mile range has suddenly become 150 miles. Do we constantly keep changing batteries?

Well, I am not involved in the project, but I would assume that a level of quality control and acceptable usage parameter testing would be built in to the process. So once batteries are removed they are capacity tested and either accepted or rejected for replacement at that point. Again though, that's an assumption based on a) good practice in project delivery and b) common sense.

 

[Blue in Munich]

How do they get around the issue of someone being left with an old battery with reduced range? I could buy a new car, drive a long stretch, change battery and be given one that has done 100k already. Meanwhile my lovely new battery goes elsewhere. My 300 mile range has suddenly become 150 miles. Do we constantly keep changing batteries?

The security aspect may be interesting; given the lengths that the nefarious workshy will go to in order to take catalytic converters from cars (including leaving a neighbour with a bleed on the brain), and liberating batteries from temporary traffic lights, how long before they try their luck with these?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The security aspect may be interesting; given the lengths that the nefarious workshy will go to in order to take catalytic converters from cars (including leaving a neighbour with a bleed on the brain), and liberating batteries from temporary traffic lights, how long before they try their luck with these?

Perhaps something like the alloy nut / key being required to unlock? Another thing for the bods to look at and factor in.

 

[clubchamp98]

If he is asleep, then the car just pops into a fast charge station en route (or as Doublebogey 7 says, swaps the battery) never disturbing the slumber.

I think a battery swop would wake most people up!
But it’s still a great idea.
How long before it’s like an F1 pit stop = 2.9 seconds.

 

[clubchamp98]

This is what Nio and a couple of other manufacturers are working on. A battery that unbolts from beneath the chassis and can be swapped out in under 10 mins with a fresh one.

The removed battery is then queued in the “battery station” for recharging and reuse probably the next day.

Yes seen this on YouTube looks very good.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yep, see Greig's response above. Doable but not cheap however once the process is scaled up it may be a good solution.

Would need to be the same across all manufacturers to make sense or charging stations would need to keep lots from each oem..

 

[clubchamp98]

How do they get around the issue of someone being left with an old battery with reduced range? I could buy a new car, drive a long stretch, change battery and be given one that has done 100k already. Meanwhile my lovely new battery goes elsewhere. My 300 mile range has suddenly become 150 miles. Do we constantly keep changing batteries?

Might be like buying a bare drill at Screwfix.
You just buy the drill not the battery.
So you only lease the battery power not the battery unit.
Just a thought.

 

[clubchamp98]

The security aspect may be interesting; given the lengths that the nefarious workshy will go to in order to take catalytic converters from cars (including leaving a neighbour with a bleed on the brain), and liberating batteries from temporary traffic lights, how long before they try their luck with these?

If they are bolted from under the car I can’t see anyone stealing a very heavy battery in the street.
You would need the correct pit and tools.
Maybe an alarm system that electrocutes thieves if not taken off in correct sequence.
I know that’s illegal atm.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Might be like buying a bare drill at Screwfix.
You just buy the drill not the battery.
So you only lease the battery power not the battery unit.
Just a thought.

People have touted the lease idea for a while. It might work but it will need a change of thinking from the consumer and a major ramp up in infrastructure to have these change stations, manned, all over. I'm not going to hold my breath on that front.

 

[Blue in Munich]

If they are bolted from under the car I can’t see anyone stealing a very heavy battery in the street.
You would need the correct pit and tools.
Maybe an alarm system that electrocutes thieves if not taken off in correct sequence.
I know that’s illegal atm.

In the street possibly/probably not; but hooking it up or dragging it onto a tilt and slide and doing the job elsewhere would be distinct possibilities from what I’ve seen on the past.

A favourite with solo motorcycles is two short bits of scaffold pole and two blokes, one through each wheel and into the back of a van. Gone in 10 seconds.

It depends how attractive the value of the batteries make the risk. If there is technology that allows batteries to be made without the precious metals then in ceases to be an issue.

 

[clubchamp98]

People have touted the lease idea for a while. It might work but it will need a change of thinking from the consumer and a major ramp up in infrastructure to have these change stations, manned, all over. I'm not going to hold my breath on that front.

I agree we’re just not ready.
Don’t think we will be for a very long time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree we’re just not ready.
Don’t think we will be for a very long time.

My Mrs works on a charity helpline. Before lockdown the helpline team were all ‘on-site’ in the charities central London offices. It had always been considered too difficult and too problematical to WFH; that the helpline team would struggle.

Within a few days of the offices closing and my wife being at home a temporary clunky stop-gap solution was up and the helpline was running with the team all WFH. Within a few months with properly set up laptops and support processes in place the clunkiness was gone. The team can now choose to WFH; work hybrid, or work in office. The service delivered from home and office and the customer experience are identical.

When needs must and the technology exists, barriers to making something new and difficult work can disappear like snow off a dyke.

 

[cliveb]

There are two fundamental issues with battery swapping:
1. All the manufacturers would have to agree on a standard battery harness. The Nio
2. It makes structural sense to incorporate the batteries into the chassis design. Having a universal harness for batteries restricts the designers, and reduces the potential efficiency of the vehicle.

 

[PJ87]

In the street possibly/probably not; but hooking it up or dragging it onto a tilt and slide and doing the job elsewhere would be distinct possibilities from what I’ve seen on the past.

A favourite with solo motorcycles is two short bits of scaffold pole and two blokes, one through each wheel and into the back of a van. Gone in 10 seconds.

It depends how attractive the value of the batteries make the risk. If there is technology that allows batteries to be made without the precious metals then in ceases to be an issue.

They are on top of it already. Telsa house batteries have a GPS tracker in them and Tesla can locate them at anytime. A warehouse was broken into and Tesla gave the police the address to where they were

The batteries become dead paperweights

They need codes to work .. mine will only work with my gateway and only Tesla can unlock it

No where takes lithium etc for scrap , and they are also very dangerous as they don't turn off they are full of volts to kill people.

Plus they weigh a blooming ton

 

[PJ87]

There are two fundamental issues with battery swapping:
1. All the manufacturers would have to agree on a standard battery harness. The Nio
2. It makes structural sense to incorporate the batteries into the chassis design. Having a universal harness for batteries restricts the designers, and reduces the potential efficiency of the vehicle.

This is what apple have said about type c usb. They have to use it for cables soon and it will stop innovation

Are we saying type c usb is the best we can do for life? Might save space to use something else and so on

 

[clubchamp98]

My Mrs works on a charity helpline. Before lockdown the helpline team were all ‘on-site’ in the charities central London offices. It had always been considered too difficult and too problematical to WFH; that the helpline team would struggle.

Within a few days of the offices closing and my wife being at home a temporary clunky stop-gap solution was up and the helpline was running with the team all WFH. Within a few months with properly set up laptops and support processes in place the clunkiness was gone. The team can now choose to WFH; work hybrid, or work in office. The service delivered from home and office and the customer experience are identical.

When needs must and the technology exists, barriers to making something new and difficult work can disappear like snow off a dyke.

That’s fair enough.
But we’re not talking moving a few offices to WFH.
We’re talking major building of charging points and battery exchanges.
It will come ,but it’s nowhere near imo.

 

[hovis]

Are car mfrs designing cars so that batteries can be swapped in and out easily?

You don't own the battery, you pay a subscription. So if you get a duff one, you report it and swap it out

Go to 6 minutes

 

[bobmac]

The removed battery is then queued in the “battery station” for recharging and reuse probably the next day.

How many battery stations are there going to be, how many batteries are they going to have each and where are all these batteries coming from, bearing in mind the problems we are having making enough of them today?

Anything that you need to stop twice to recharge imo.

There are currently 6 manufacturers that make EVs that have a range of over 300 miles, 379 being the longest.
That's 900 miles if you stop twice.
I agree, that's a long run, about 18 hours of driving or London to Edinburgh and back