Signing in to a comp

[doublebogey7]

You pay before the comp starts. Same as when you are supposed to sign in

Then what form does sign in take.

If I was the player involved here I would be arguing that by paying my fee immediately before playing I have committed to play in the competition. It would seem to me that argument would stand unless prevuos players who had done the same had their fee's returned to them despite not featuring in the prizes.

Edit: After reading subsequent posts I wholly agree with Swango, but would add youy committee would be on a sticky wickey if they now deny the prize to the winning score sign in or no sign in.

 

[MACM85]

Then what form does sign in take.

If I was the player involved here I would be arguing that by paying my fee immediately before playing I have committed to play in the competition. It would seem to me that argument would stand unless prevuos players who had done the same had their fee's returned to them despite not featuring in the prizes.

Edit: After reading subsequent posts I wholly agree with Swango, but would add youy committee would be on a sticky wickey if they now deny the prize to the winning score sign in or no sign in.

Rules of the committee state that you must sign in via PSI. As this hasn't happened then it is in breach of comp rules. That is what I think we are trying to point out.

The payment is not proof of sign in. As we have had members pay. Not turn up, Forfeit the fee and not receive a penalty score for non return of scorecard.

 

[doublebogey7]

Rules of the committee state that you must sign in via PSI. As this hasn't happened then it is in breach of comp rules. That is what I think we are trying to point out.

The payment is not proof of sign in. As we have had members pay. Not turn up, Forfeit the fee and not receive a penalty score for non return of scorecard.

Hold on, I am now a little confused. Didn't you just say that payment is made at the same time as sign in. Now you are signing you have had players pay and then not turn up, surely they have to have turned up to sign in and pay the fee. Or maybe I am missing something.

 

[Swango1980]

Rules of the committee state that you must sign in via PSI. As this hasn't happened then it is in breach of comp rules. That is what I think we are trying to point out.

The payment is not proof of sign in. As we have had members pay. Not turn up, Forfeit the fee and not receive a penalty score for non return of scorecard.

I agree with doublebogey. If a player has paid entry before starting the competition, there is a clear intent for them to play in the competition.

They didn't Sign In, so it seems that they should not be allowed to enter the competition purely based on the Terms of Competition.

However, trying to put things together, I suspect the issue is more related to poorly communicated Terms of Competition, rather than the Player failing in their duties. I suspect it isn't the first time a player has forgotten to Sign In, and has that player then been prohibited from having their score entered? No shows are completely different, their score didn't appear in the competition because there was simply no score to submit.

It wouldn't surprise me if Committee's decision is to allow the players score to stand, but they'll reword the Terms of Competition. However, if they actually have stopped players submitting scores in the past after forgetting to Sign In, then they'll have to remove the players score from the competition if they are going to be consistent.

As I think I said in an earlier post. At my last club, we asked players to Sign In on Club V1 before playing in a drawn competition. This was to simply make things ever so slightly easier for Committee when closing the comp. A fair few players would sometimes forget. There was no problem on our part. They were not breaking a rule of golf, and we knew they were in the comp and we had their entry fee. Technically, we could warn persistent offenders if they made our lives difficult, but it never came close to that as it was no real problem at all.

It was more important for players to Sign In when they could play anytime during the day, and play with whoever they wanted, whether they were in the comp as well or not.

 

[MACM85]

Hold on, I am now a little confused. Didn't you just say that payment is made at the same time as sign in. Now you are signing you have had players pay and then not turn up, surely they have to have turned up to sign in and pay the fee. Or maybe I am missing something.

The sign in and payment are two separate instances. We need to pay via bank transfer before the comp starts. Then sign in with an intent to submit a qualifying score in the competition on the PSI.

I just see it as our committee have got a terrible set of rules/guidelines and it needs to be addressed and corrected

 

[doublebogey7]

The sign in and payment are two separate instances. We need to pay via bank transfer before the comp starts. Then sign in with an intent to submit a qualifying score in the competition on the PSI.

I just see it as our committee have got a terrible set of rules/guidelines and it needs to be addressed and corrected

Right got you, never heard of entry fee's being paid by bank transfer. Would be interested to know what happens if a player forgets to make the bank transfer, but signs in. Are they still in the competition and can they win a prize.

Your club certainly seems to have a very convoluted way of doing things and requires an immediate root and branch review of the Terms of Competition, otherwise the Committee is going to contually come against these kinds of issues.

 

[IanMcC]

The sign in and payment are two separate instances. We need to pay via bank transfer before the comp starts. Then sign in with an intent to submit a qualifying score in the competition on the PSI.

I just see it as our committee have got a terrible set of rules/guidelines and it needs to be addressed and corrected

Sounds like your club desperately needs new competition software.

 

[Plus4]

At our club you can, if you so desire:
Enter a competition and withdraw any time that day and get your money back (even after score has been entered)!
Turn up, play a great front 9 then enter the comp!
Even worse - Turn up and play 18, look at the scores posted, then decide to enter and if it's worthwhile adding sweep money in!
Of course most wouldn't ever consider behaving in such a manner but there are those that will work the system and if the system is flawed, are able to gain a big advantage.
Our ISV has a facility requiring golfers to commit on the day as per Appendix G2.1a(2) Pre-registration, but they don't utilise it - times can also be tied up with tee-times via reports to check. I imagine all ISVs have something similar. I know of at least 2 other clubs that operate strict policies surrounding this issue - if not signed-up (pre-registered intent) then not in comp. Some committees take their responsibilities seriously and others clearly do not. My club is the latter, unfortunately.

 

[2blue]

The sign in and payment are two separate instances. We need to pay via bank transfer before the comp starts. Then sign in with an intent to submit a qualifying score in the competition on the PSI.

I just see it as our committee have got a terrible set of rules/guidelines and it needs to be addressed and corrected

Absolutely nothing wrong with this & exactly how we operate. Before going out players must Pay an entry fee in Pro-shop by debit/credit card or from 'Shop A/c credit' as well as signing in to Comp via PSI or HDIDo App. Failure to do either means removal from Comp & a refund given...... all very clear & simple. Sadly, due to our owners using other financial software, we are unable to make use of V1's financial facility to pay Comp entry using their Member's card system.

 

[Neilds]

Absolutely nothing wrong with this & exactly how we operate. Before going out players must Pay an entry fee in Pro-shop by debit/credit card or from 'Shop A/c credit' as well as signing in to Comp via PSI or HDIDo App. Failure to do either means removal from Comp & a refund given...... all very clear & simple. Sadly, due to our owners using other financial software, we are unable to make use of V1's financial facility to pay Comp entry using their Member's card system.

That isn’t like the OP has stated at all. Your method is the same as ours where you pay in the Pro Shop, proving you are at the course and going to play in the comp. In the OPs club, you pay by bank transfer well before you get to the course, probably days before

 

[MACM85]

Right got you, never heard of entry fee's being paid by bank transfer. Would be interested to know what happens if a player forgets to make the bank transfer, but signs in. Are they still in the competition and can they win a prize.

Your club certainly seems to have a very convoluted way of doing things and requires an immediate root and branch review of the Terms of Competition, otherwise the Committee is going to contually come against these kinds of issues.

No payment should mean DQ. However most of the time the treasurer will just remind the individual to pay

 

[2blue]

That isn’t like the OP has stated at all. Your method is the same as ours where you pay in the Pro Shop, proving you are at the course and going to play in the comp. In the OPs club, you pay by bank transfer well before you get to the course, probably days before

No it's not. We have 5 people in the H/cap Team processing Comps & none of us have access to the paying in system so will only know who's in the Comp by who's signed in. Players responsibility is to sign-in & pay entry before playing. Treasure checks all those who are in the winnings to ensure they've paid entry...... plus random overall checks as well.

 

[Neilds]

No it's not. We have 5 people in the H/cap Team processing Comps & none of us have access to the paying in system so will only know who's in the Comp by who's signed in. Players responsibility is to sign-in & pay entry before playing. Treasure checks all those who are in the winnings to ensure they've paid entry...... plus random overall checks as well.

So when do you pay? You say it is in the shop before you play - is this directly before you play? This would then prove you are actually going ot play at that time

Our system, which I think is really simple, is you go into the shop, you pay your money and the Pro ticks you off the list they have pre printed from IG which shows all the entrants. You then go and play and submit your score in the terminal at the end, putting your card in the box. Anything else just seems over complicated to me.

 

[MACM85]

I think the issue my club has is that the comps are run seperately from the club. The members club runs all comps and details. We don't pay the pro or can we top up our card for entrance fees. We need to do it via bank transfer. Used to be allowed to pay via cash but they went cashless so everything is now electronic

 

[bobmac]

Why can't people leave stuff alone.
The shop has a print out of the tee-times with names.
Joe Bloggs walks in, signs next to his name, pays his money, gets his competition card and leaves.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Why can't people leave stuff alone.
The shop has a print out of the tee-times with names.
Joe Bloggs walks in, signs next to his name, pays his money, gets his competition card and leaves.

That is pretty much how it will work at most places, except with some updates. People don't carry cash so it's done via a club card. They don't use a pen to sign in, they press a few buttons on a screen. It's basically the same as you describe but a newer version.

The OP is describing a very clumsy and messy way his club does it. The failings are pretty obvious, which he is clearly frustrated about. It shouldn't be hard to rectify.

 

[2blue]

I think the issue my club has is that the comps are run seperately from the club. The club runs all comps and details. We don't pay the pro nor can we top up our card for entrance fees. We need to do it via bank transfer. Used to be allowed to pay via cash but they went cashless so everything is now electronic

Why can't people leave stuff alone.
The shop has a print out of the tee-times with names.
Joe Bloggs walks in, signs next to his name, pays his money, gets his competition card and leaves.

Difficult to leave alone as we're all operating differently.

 

[bobmac]

That is pretty much how it will work at most places, except with some updates. People don't carry cash so it's done via a club card. They don't use a pen to sign in, they press a few buttons on a screen. It's basically the same as you describe but a newer version.

I know what happens but I don't see why it was changed.
Just because you can do something with technology doesn't mean to say you have to do it.

Difficult to leave alone as we're all operating differently.

I was talking about changes made in the past, before technology stuck its nose in.

 

[2blue]

I think the issue my club has is that the comps are run seperately from the club. The members club runs all comps and details. We don't pay the pro or can we top up our card for entrance fees. We need to do it via bank transfer. Used to be allowed to pay via cash but they went cashless so everything is now electronic

I think you have a very simple system..... members need to pay & enter to be in the Comp. Why should a Club volunteer, Treasurer or H/cap team have to chase up people who don't do what they are responsible for doing? A DQ sometimes has to be strong reminder

 

[2blue]

I know what happens but I don't see why it was changed.
Just because you can do something with technology doesn't mean to say you have to do it.

I was talking about changes made in the past, before technology stuck its nose in.

Oh, like when someone had to make a journey to collect all the cards, enter their scores, chase up those that were difficult to read, check that all cards had been returned etc etc. Have you ever been involved in this area of Club life?