Ryder Cup 2021

[IanM]

So our best player was in fact our second worse player? How does that work?

One index was shots, one was matchplay outcome!

 

[Swango1980]

I suppose, it's just surprising because I remember Rahm draining practically every putt, whereas say, Casey for example was pretty anonymous all weekend.

Yeah, it surprised me. Rahm and Garcia dove tailed beautifully. In the singles Casey shot a very good score in his match against Johnson. Rahm was still definitely the star. In match play the mentality is so different, especially in doubles. You need to make the putts in the big moments, but provide support in other moments (such as make the safe par and let your partner have a free go). Try and put your opponents under pressure at key times, rather than just think about your individual score. Makes you wonder how appropriate it is to use match play scores for handicap, and that we currently may have it right in not using them. However, I'm sure it won't be long before we are allowed to use them, as they do in other parts of the world.

 

[Orikoru]

Yeah, it surprised me. Rahm and Garcia dove tailed beautifully. In the singles Casey shot a very good score in his match against Johnson. Rahm was still definitely the star. In match play the mentality is so different, especially in doubles. You need to make the putts in the big moments, but provide support in other moments (such as make the safe par and let your partner have a free go). Try and put your opponents under pressure at key times, rather than just think about your individual score. Makes you wonder how appropriate it is to use match play scores for handicap, and that we currently may have it right in not using them. However, I'm sure it won't be long before we are allowed to use them, as they do in other parts of the world.

Yeah. One of the things they mentioned in commentary yesterday was that the players feel they actually hole more putts in match play because they are not concerned about the next one coming back, if it's for a half for example.

 

[azazel]

There's definitely a perception that putting was the difference, although you could maybe make the same argument for every golf tournament ever.

After the first two days, the USA were a combined -32 for the par 5s and won 24 of them, whereas Europe were -15 and only won six of them. Maybe it really was length that made the difference?

 

[Swango1980]

I suppose, it's just surprising because I remember Rahm draining practically every putt, whereas say, Casey for example was pretty anonymous all weekend.

If the US implemented WHS like we do in the UK, Dustin would have a Course Handicap of -14.9 at Whistling Straits. That would be daunting, but a score of 29.8 points (30) would be playing to handicap. Obviously his course handicap in the US would be higher, at -8.7 I believe, as they factor in CR-Par.

 

[williamalex1]

There's definitely a perception that putting was the difference, although you could maybe make the same argument for every golf tournament ever.

After the first two days, the USA were a combined -32 for the par 5s and won 24 of them, whereas Europe were -15 and only won six of them. Maybe it really was length that made the difference?

IMHO putting was the main difference, team Europe narrowly missed lots of putts, team USA holed lots more.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The US dominated the Par 5s and long par 3s. It was set up for them to do exactly that.

 

[BubbaP]

I suppose, it's just surprising because I remember Rahm draining practically every putt, whereas say, Casey for example was pretty anonymous all weekend.

In the posted it stated "I only took the fourballs and singles scores (obviously)"
He holed a lot in the foursomes

 

[Ethan]

I am over this loss already. I think I was over it by Saturday evening.

The better team won, simple as that. They would have won anyway, probably even if it was in Europe. Did the crowd help a bit - sure, a couple of points, maybe.

In a couple of years time in Italy, we will have a different team. Rahmbo will be there, Rory too, probably, likewise Hovland, but the rest are up for grabs. Westwood, Casey, Poulter and Garcia are probably done. It should be a significant changing of the guard.

The US team looks to have 6 or 7 locked in.

Europe needs to figure out the right balance between Euro Tour points, World Points and Captain's picks.

 

[Curls]

A totally dominant American team hammered Europe to win the Ryder Cup in a record winning margin on Sunday. Padraig Harrington was at the helm of Europe's crushing loss - and Telegraph Sport looks at seven key areas where the Irishman could have done better.

Qualifying system
Why would a captain not want as many wild cards as possible? Europe’s Padraig Harrington never did make this clear.
Indeed, he actually reduced his options from the four that Thomas Bjorn was permitted in 2018, to three. And in the midst of the chaos of a pandemic, with counterpart Steve Stricker asking for six picks, this was decidedly odd.

When Harrington did try to explain, he seemed to suggest that it would make his job too difficult. Regardless, a strong, confident captain seeks the maximum control.

So a weird hybrid system was allowed to cough up the automatic top nine. The top four from the European Points list (ie money converted to points earned on the European Tour) and then the top five on the World Points list (ie ranking points earned on any tour).



It left Harrington with the ridiculous scenario in which Bernd Wiesberger could, and did, leapfrog Shane Lowry in the final event despite finishing behind him in that final event. The system requires overhauling.

With the strategic alliance with the PGA Tour, the European Tour must cease protecting its circuits from the talent drain across the Atlantic.

Also, the decision not to count points earned in the past six months of the year following lockdown made no sense. It meant Europe had the form players of 2019 and 2021, but not of 2020. Again, a strong captain would have fought this nonsense.

Giving the nod to Garcia and Poulter in May


But when Harrington told Telegraph Sport four months before the end of the qualifying race, “Sergio would almost need to lose a limb not to get a pick – and Poulter is not far behind”, it was a head-scratcher.

Think it, but do not admit it. Basically, those in contention knew that they were playing for one spot. It was demotivating and it also showed his hand way too early to Stricker. However honest, it was an error. And Harrington made so many of those.


Wentworth
There was too much riding on the BMW PGA Championship, the final qualifying event two weeks ago. Having elected for double points to be on offer for the last four months – Harrington kept repeating that he wanted players in form, despite parts of the system working against it. Wentworth, with its Rolex Series and flagship event status, was loaded with points

It made it an extremely volatile conclusion, with Matt Fitzpatrick at one stage facing last-gasp heartbreak, despite Harrington indicating for months that the Englishman was safe.

When Lee Westwood left the course after an ugly 77 on the Sunday, he was resigned to falling out of the top nine. The 48-year-old looked and sounded exhausted and said: “At my age this is the last thing I need.”

Eventually, Wiesberger farcically jumped above Lowry after finishing below him in the tournament. Westwood scraped in but said the experience had left him “shattered”.

“Some of the guys turning up here don’t need this two weeks before a Ryder Cup,” Westwood said. “It is going to be draining and you want to be going into the Ryder Cup fresh.”

Harrington dismissed this, saying it was ideal preparation. But at the same time, the US team were on their way to Whistling Straits to scout out the course. They were full of certainty, Europe were full of uncertainty. It was a frenetic finale to a two-year race. Daft and ultimately detrimental.

Wild cards
It is easy to say: “He should have picked Justin Rose.” There were sound reasons for picking Garcia, Poulter and Lowry. Garcia more than justified the faith, winning three points out of three in the first two days, and Lowry winning one out of two in those initial four sessions.



However, Poulter drew a blank and although hindsight is everything, a captain lives and dies by his wild cards. Rose finished third at Wentworth with a final round 65.

His CV is crammed with glory and evidence that he relishes the big stage. Wise after the event is one thing, but Harrington knew that if his picks did not deliver he would be criticised.


Pairings/analytics
Speaking to insiders in the build-up there were concerns he was investing too much in the analytics, in “the stats guys” he had employed throughout his tenure, and was not placing enough priority on his and his vice-captains’ observations and listening to his “gut”.

He kept switching his fourball groupings in practice and later admitted the pairings had been decided anyway. Stricker kept options open. To Harrington, if it was not written in the stats columns, the routes were closed.

The analytics took him to a first-day set of pairings that in some regards were bizarre. No Tommy Fleetwood or Shane Lowry in the foursomes, but Poulter alongside McIlroy. Foursomes exposes ball-striking. Perhaps Poulter should have been covered in the fourballs instead.



Westwood had lost his previous four matches in the Ryder Cup, going back to the Saturday fourballs in 2014. Fitzpatrick had lost both games on his previous experience in 2016. Confidence hardly abounded.

It led to a 3-1 defeat in that opening session and the entire match was slipping out of reach even at that early stage. How Harrington acted in those ominous few hours of the first morning would come to define his captaincy.

The plan
With the foursomes facing ruination, Harrington elected to stick with the script he and the stats guys had come up with weeks, if not months, before.

It is understood that at least one vice-captain urged him to send Rahm and Garcia out again in the Friday fourballs after their impressive 3&1 win over Justin Thomas and Jordan Spieth. Europe needed points immediately.

But that is not what it said on his sheet so Garcia was benched and Rahm was sent out with Tyrrell Hatton. They earned a valiant half courtesy of a brilliant Hatton birdie on the 18th, but with Fleetwood and Hovland halving with Thomas and Patrick Cantlay, despite being two up with seven holes remaining, the Americans were able to make it 6-2 at the end of the first day.



Paul Casey and Wiesberger were beaten a long way out in the leading fourballs against Johnson and Schauffele and the wisdom of sending out Wiesberger, the world No 63, in any top match of a session was doubtful.

McIlroy did not play well in the morning but Harrington kept loyal. McIlroy made an eagle but not a single birdie and it was too much of a carrying job for his countryman Lowry in first Ryder Cup encounter. It was America’s biggest first-day advantage in 46 years and only the Medinah fundamentalists still believed.

McIlroy was belatedly dropped on Saturday morning, but Lowry and Fleetwood bizarrely also sat it out. Another 3-1 win to the US. Hovland had not won any of his first three games but was sent out again. By now, it was obvious that the US were simply a far better team and the Harrington apologists will contend that no captain could have won.

Maybe that is right, maybe this is cruel. Yet mistakes were definitely made.

Harrington’s style
Harrington can only be what he is and it is clearly not his fault if it is concluded that he was not ideally suited to the leadership role.



The Irishman talks a wonderful game and his three majors show he plays a wonderful individual game. Furthermore he won a World Cup alongside Paul McGinley for Ireland.

Yet his record in six Ryder Cups was below 50 per cent, winning only nine of his 25 matches. Of course, that did not dictate that his captaincy would stumble, yet there were fears that this quirky qualified accountant would struggle to command the collective.

There is no doubt this US team are formidable, yet that does not mean Europe could not have put up more of a fight. The team palpably did not perform. It will be claimed that this inquest is unfair because Harrington did not hit any shots. But he did call them and as he told me in May: “Hey, it comes with the gig”.

As much as I did not enjoy reading that, I have to admit I agree with it.

 

[Highslice]

Whichever side of the Atlantic , there seems to be huge home advantage in the Ryder cup.

Is there anything that could be done regarding the course set up to even things out?

Was thinking the host team obviously still picks the venue, but maybe then the away captain is allowed some leeway to actually set the course up? They could choose pin positions, tee boxes, length of rough etc. Would that be crazy?

 

[Curls]

Whichever side of the Atlantic , there seems to be huge home advantage in the Ryder cup.

Is there anything that could be done regarding the course set up to even things out?

Was thinking the host team obviously still picks the venue, but maybe then the away captain is allowed some leeway to actually set the course up? They could choose pin positions, tee boxes, length of rough etc. Would that be crazy?

Not at all. They set up Le Golf Nationale to suit the Europeans. And I think the greens were a lot faster this weekend than many Europeans are used to week in week out. Showed in the putting. Plus the course length obviously. That’s home advantage.

 

[Curls]

I am over this loss already. I think I was over it by Saturday evening.

The better team won, simple as that. They would have won anyway, probably even if it was in Europe. Did the crowd help a bit - sure, a couple of points, maybe.

In a couple of years time in Italy, we will have a different team. Rahmbo will be there, Rory too, probably, likewise Hovland, but the rest are up for grabs. Westwood, Casey, Poulter and Garcia are probably done. It should be a significant changing of the guard.

The US team looks to have 6 or 7 locked in.

Europe needs to figure out the right balance between Euro Tour points, World Points and Captain's picks.

And don’t forget, Patrick Reed will be back too. They’ve got the bones of the next team already selected. Everyone else is playing for a few spots

 

[BridgfordBlue]

Two years is a long time. Just look at Spieth.

 

[fundy]

3 of the top ten in the Amatuer rankings are European - they said after 2008 it would be US Domination - then they said it again after 2016.

Playing in Europe with European Fans is going to make a big difference and 2 years is a long time in golf

Imo you are reacting like a football fan - when you lose once it’s knee jerk reactions

thats a bit harsh, hes seems not to be able to find the footie thread this weekend

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Not at all. They set up Le Golf Nationale to suit the Europeans. And I think the greens were a lot faster this weekend than many Europeans are used to week in week out. Showed in the putting. Plus the course length obviously. That’s home advantage.

Don't think the pace of the greens was a factor.

Of the European team only Wiesberger did not play the majority of his golf on the PGA Tour this year and for a number of years.

 

[Patster1969]

Bill said it a few posts ago, the US made a lot of clutch putts, whereas the European putts just slid by - even Finau was dropping them in and he's never been one of the most confident players on the green

 

[garyinderry]

I have to admit I was a bit worried when I seen the european team heading off on a plane on the Monday or whatever it was.
A couple of days with jet lag and all the other distractions does not sound like long enough to learn the course and get into a proper rhythm.
Especially when the Americans already had a practice meet up the week previous.

 

[rksquire]

I think what we expected to happen, did happen. Of course there has to be a review, but it would be good not to get carried away with calls for a world team and total despair that we'll not win it for the next 20 years. There's a very good chance we'll win it in Italy.

The Friday afternoon session was deflating - there wasn't a good enough reaction to the mornings play, some of the pairings were strange in my opinion and the Captain saying he couldn't ask for more was strange; it felt like he'd conceded the tournament on day 1. I think Harrington is a nice guy, and the players comments about him and Caroline not being able to do more are very nice but really (and I dislike McGinley!) I want to hear how he was over all the detail, left no stone unturned, knew all the players inside and out to the point where the players just had to play golf (like McGinleys captaincy).

Wiesberger's zero return probably bears no scrutiny; Fitzpatrick and Casey on the other hand do, with the former, perhaps unfairly, responsible (finding water from the fairway) for the final point that gave the USA a record score.

Of the lads who returned a point (Lowry, Poulter, Westwood, McIlroy) it was probably a case of 'more was expected'. It meant a lot to all 4 and Lowry hopefully will be stronger for the experience. The other 3 are more experienced and just didn't perform until it was too late. McIlroy in particular had a very poor 2 days, both his & Poutlers emotions at the end perhaps reflective of the pressure they put on themselves. Hatton can hold his high I think, his temperament should suit Italy.

Rahm and Garcia were the only shining lights and it would be easy to suggest they should have been split up (not counting the session Garcia was rested) but it might be unfair to suggest that as I'm Harrington was thinking points on the board. Highlight is Garcia spitting water in the debacle that would eventually see Koepka break his wrist in 14 places #prayforbrooks

The reality is of course the USA had better players that all played close to their potential and the Stricker got the pairings right. Scheffler and BDC solved the potential BDC problem and the Americans have some bonafide Superstars (in fact only 4 who I don't think are yet exceptional). The downside for the USA is some of the fan behaviour (sour grapes by me) but also the conduct of the players at certain times, in particular Koepka and Thomas (in my opinion). In Italy I'd expect the USA having to leave some big name players out with some of the European players being better for this experience.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Both of those things are true though. The talent pool the US have is ridiculous. Horschel, ranked 18 in the world, didn't even make their team, while our team only had 3 or 4 players ranked higher than that. Poulter is ranked 50. Whenever we do win it it should be considered a huge upset.

It's about time we made it US vs rest of the world, at least we could call up Louis, Hideki and Cam Smith then.

What happens if USA beats the rest of the world, a call for the Martians?