Ryder Cup 2018 - Paris

[Grant85]

You do realise their playing matchplay? Par is irrelevant

Thanks, I'm familiar with the format.

My point being that it is tougher mentally to play a difficult course. Even if you win a match, you may still not feel as comfortable or confident as you would going round in 4 or 5 under.

 

[Grant85]

This is a really strange post.

11/12 of the Europeans play a majority US schedule - 9 almost exclusively US. So even if the above stacked up whatsoever it wouldn't be relevant to these European players.

The tours have a very, very similar winning average score relative to par, so with generally much weaker fields in European events you would conclude they are played on easier courses.

Majors are the toughest setups these players face - 9 of the US team have won one or more. Just 5 of the Europeans have.

I honestly can't see how the US guys are going to struggle to 'adjust the mindset' - they're superstar golfers.

They may play as PGA tour members, but they have global schedules, far more global than most of the American team.

They have also learned the game in Europe and spent formative years playing 20 or 25 European tour events around Europe, Asia and Africa each season. That's a lot of golf, a lot of different conditions & courses and I feel makes the European team a better golfing group, which in my mind explains the massive success Europe have had over the past 3 decades, winning all events in Europe in the past 25 years and only losing 3 Cups since 1993.

Obviously with most of the majors, WGC events & big money tournaments, it is a no brainer for the guys who are good enough to play in America and earn their living there. But they don't suddenly forget all that they've learned playing in Europe. And in my view it does give Americans an advantage in the world rankings, playing so many big events on home soil.

As for the Open - no doubt Americans often put in a good showing and many of them win it but look at the final day at Carnoustie... the Europeans were making the run as Tiger, Spieth, Kisner, Schauffle all went backwards. Molinari playing the weekend bogey free, Rose making a run from the cut line to finish 2nd, Rory getting involved and even Pepperell posting a number early in some of the toughest conditions in tournament golf.

 

[User 99]

2-2, possibly 3-1 Europe is my prediction

Can't see us losing that session tbh, 2-2 or 2-1/2 1-1/2

 

[Orikoru]

Seeing those match ups really hits home how strong the US are. We lose matches 2 and 3 all day I reckon. 1 could go either way, and 4 will be the best match of the lot, but again could go either way. Best we can hope for is 2-2.

 

[User 99]

I'd be more concerned about Poulter and Garcia playing foursomes cause surely all players will play on the first day.

 

[shortgame]

Seeing those match ups really hits home how strong the US are. We lose matches 2 and 3 all day I reckon. 1 could go either way, and 4 will be the best match of the lot, but again could go either way. Best we can hope for is 2-2.

Yes but they have some (relatively) weak players who have to play at some point. In theory blooding our rookies could set us up nicely IF we can get at least a draw from the morming session. Hopefully we can make a move in the afternoon foursomes

 

[USER1999]

Europe have been successful recently because the Americans have been badly prepared, and badly lead. That all changed with the task force, and also the caliber of players they presently have. Buckle up for a rough ride.

 

[SammmeBee]

Been there all day - been awesome so far! Come on Tiger!!!

 

[Grant85]

I don't understand the logic of leaving out Phil and Bubba for the fourball. I guess it comes down to getting their best 4 pairings out to get some momentum, or stop Europe getting momentum.

Now they are either going to then play them in the foursomes, which I don't see as the best format for them, or bench them all day - which is going to be tough for them to come back from.

I think the 4 players Europe have benched are absolutely ideal for the foursomes and all of them will play in the afternoon.

 

[paddyc]

Im feeling confident about our chances. Quite a few our players have a lot of experience playing the course in the French Open and have played well and won there, where as the US dont have any and I recall Bubba having a complete mare there a few years ago, throwing out his dummy. I know its a bigger event and greater pressure, but with home advantage I fancy us to do it.

 

[TheDiablo]

They may play as PGA tour members, but they have global schedules, far more global than most of the American team.

They have also learned the game in Europe and spent formative years playing 20 or 25 European tour events around Europe, Asia and Africa each season. That's a lot of golf, a lot of different conditions & courses and I feel makes the European team a better golfing group, which in my mind explains the massive success Europe have had over the past 3 decades, winning all events in Europe in the past 25 years and only losing 3 Cups since 1993.

Obviously with most of the majors, WGC events & big money tournaments, it is a no brainer for the guys who are good enough to play in America and earn their living there. But they don't suddenly forget all that they've learned playing in Europe. And in my view it does give Americans an advantage in the world rankings, playing so many big events on home soil.

As for the Open - no doubt Americans often put in a good showing and many of them win it but look at the final day at Carnoustie... the Europeans were making the run as Tiger, Spieth, Kisner, Schauffle all went backwards. Molinari playing the weekend bogey free, Rose making a run from the cut line to finish 2nd, Rory getting involved and even Pepperell posting a number early in some of the toughest conditions in tournament golf.

You're seriously over analysing far too much.

Picking out 1 good day for Europeans in the last 7 majors doesn't really prove a point. If anything it proves the exception to the rule. The American team play better in majors, which have tougher set ups then any European tour event in Asia, Africa etc. I know where id prefer the pedigree to be.

 

[TheDiablo]

I don't understand the logic of leaving out Phil and Bubba for the fourball. I guess it comes down to getting their best 4 pairings out to get some momentum, or stop Europe getting momentum.

Now they are either going to then play them in the foursomes, which I don't see as the best format for them, or bench them all day - which is going to be tough for them to come back from.

I think the 4 players Europe have benched are absolutely ideal for the foursomes and all of them will play in the afternoon.

Phil and Bryson are set for the foursomes. Phil was seen practicing with a Bridgestone ball today.

Phil will take evens, meaning he hits into 3 of the par 3s, essentially 12 approach shots which are a strength of his. 4 of his other tee shots are iron of the tee. So 2 drivers. He's a great scrambler and putter, so 4somes does make sense

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

Strong USA pairings and could easily come out on top, but if they don't and particularly if they lose certain matches then Furyk has put a whole heap of pressure on himself which I don't think he needed to do.

Mickelson in foursomes, weaker afternoon pairings with Watson and Bubba, breaking up Reed/Spieth and having a flagship pairing in Tiger/Reed if they lose.

 

[Jacko_G]

Really? Game 4 looks like a walkover for USA!

Two EXTREMELY underrated golfers in Fleetwood and Molinari.

 

[User 99]

Really? Game 4 looks like a walkover for USA!

Reed has been hacking about for weeks, Tiger has a horrible RC record, Molinari and Fleetwood hardly miss a fairway, you like others need to calm down, not a gambling man but if I was I'd have a fiver on at least a half for Europe in that game.

 

[Grant85]

Phil and Bryson are set for the foursomes. Phil was seen practicing with a Bridgestone ball today.

Phil will take evens, meaning he hits into 3 of the par 3s, essentially 12 approach shots which are a strength of his. 4 of his other tee shots are iron of the tee. So 2 drivers. He's a great scrambler and putter, so 4somes does make sense

That's reasonable logic, although I'm sure if the foursomes had been in the mornings, Phil would still have been playing in the afternoon.

 

[Grant85]

You're seriously over analysing far too much.

Picking out 1 good day for Europeans in the last 7 majors doesn't really prove a point. If anything it proves the exception to the rule. The American team play better in majors, which have tougher set ups then any European tour event in Asia, Africa etc. I know where id prefer the pedigree to be.

Fact is that Europe have been hugely successful in the Ryder Cup despite having fewer marquee players, fewer top ranked players, fewer major winners etc etc.

I don't think it's simply to do with poor American strategy or leadership. The numbers are so heavily in Europe's favour I feel there is a systemic advantage to Europe in this event.

 

[GaryK]

Match 3 is lined up as a tantrum-fest. The question is, out of the 4, who will have the first meltdown?

Given the European home advantage, I reckon that the best that the USA will do is be tied 2-2 going into the afternoon.

 

[TheDiablo]

Fact is that Europe have been hugely successful in the Ryder Cup despite having fewer marquee players, fewer top ranked players, fewer major winners etc etc.

I don't think it's simply to do with poor American strategy or leadership. The numbers are so heavily in Europe's favour I feel there is a systemic advantage to Europe in this event.

I obviously agree with the first paragraph.

Wildly disagree with the second still though. They've largely had a somewhat arrogant slapdash 'rely on our talent and hope it gets us over the line' strategy and leadership approach, coupled with the Phil/Tiger relationship of old which imo were the root cause of our success. The first part was addressed by Azinger and again by Love and now Furyk. The second part genuinely seems to have thawed in old age which is refreshing and good news for the US team.

Sorry, but I can't put any weight to the idea the Euros get a systemic advantage by playing half the year on easy courses partnered with second rate tours and weak fields.

 

[TheDiablo]

That's reasonable logic, although I'm sure if the foursomes had been in the mornings, Phil would still have been playing in the afternoon.

Yeah I agree with that.

The problem with sticking out Phil early in 4 balls is if he shoots +4 and barely keeps the ball in play, he has to be benched until Sunday. Which wouldn't be good for the US team room.

By sticking him in the afternoon with half the potential shots, if he goes OK you can play him in either session Saturday.

Anyway, fingers crossed we can stay level tomorrow morning. Huge session. Fancy us to do very well in 4some if we can stay in touch in the morning.