Rake Placement in Bunker - Reader - I pulled up a FC

[clubchamp98]

brilliant - I will refer the club to this.

Just want to make sure the club does not find itself having to deal with an absurd 'free relief way from bunker surround' situation in any of our comps - especially open ones.

Just an aside from this .
If a professional tournament was held at this venue would this local rule apply to the pros.?
Let’s be honest they are pretty good at using the rules to their advantage.
We have an internal OBB which was removed for a pro tournament .

 

[rulefan]

Just an aside from this .
If a professional tournament was held at this venue would this local rule apply to the pros.?

IMO, almost certainly, yes.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just an aside from this .
If a professional tournament was held at this venue would this local rule apply to the pros.?
Let’s be honest they are pretty good at using the rules to their advantage.
We have an internal OBB which was removed for a pro tournament .

And we do host the occasional PGA South regional pro tour event - plus pro-ams.

Separate question is whether or not the pros would know they could take free relief if we do not do what we must?

 

[clubchamp98]

And we do host the occasional PGA South regional pro tour event - plus pro-ams.

Separate question is whether or not the pros would know they could take free relief if we do not do what we must?

They would know ,it’s their job.

 

[rulefan]

And we do host the occasional PGA South regional pro tour event - plus pro-ams.

Separate question is whether or not the pros would know they could take free relief if we do not do what we must?

If they are in a bunker and see a trace of astroturf, take relief and find the LR is in force but not on the hard card, there would be all hell let loose.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so...playing over the weekend it appears that we do not have a LR in place to define artificial turf revetted surrounds to our bunkers as Integral Objects. Indeed when I mentioned this issue to our past Chairman on Saturday he scoffed at the very idea that a player could get free relief from such a surround.

Next weekend is our Club Champs weekend. And I cast forward my thoughts to the 18th green on the first day... I am not aware of a new LR in place

I am in a greenside bunker - and I find myself with swing impeded by an artificial turf surround. I need to get down in two to be certain of qualifying for Round Two. Down in three will almost certainly see me qualify. Any more than that I'm oot.

The only shot I have is sideways towards deep rough only yards from the bunker and with OoB lurking just too close for comfort. Come out too heavy and I'm in deep doggie and in great danger of not qualifying. Indeed even if I come out well I still have a very difficult up and down.

Or do I take free relief in the bunker - even if I am aware that the club intends to put a LR in place - a relief that will enable me to play a shot to the green and a good chance of an up and down - at worse a three.

 

[Marshy77]

And so...playing over the weekend it appears that we do not have a LR in place to define artificial turf revetted surrounds to our bunkers as Integral Objects. Indeed when I mentioned this issue to our past Chairman on Saturday he scoffed at the very idea that a player could get free relief from such a surround.

Next weekend is our Club Champs weekend. And I cast forward my thoughts to the 18th green on the first day... I am not aware of a new LR in place

I am in a greenside bunker - and I find myself with swing impeded by an artificial turf surround. I need to get down in two to be certain of qualifying for Round Two. Down in three will almost certainly see me qualify. Any more than that I'm oot.

The only shot I have is sideways towards deep rough only yards from the bunker and with OoB lurking just too close for comfort. Come out too heavy and I'm in deep doggie and in great danger of not qualifying. Indeed even if I come out well I still have a very difficult up and down.

Or do I take free relief in the bunker - even if I am aware that the club intends to put a LR in place - a relief that will enable me to play a shot to the green and a good chance of an up and down - at worse a three.

I may be reading this wrong but you can't take a free drop if something isn't in place now.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I may be reading this wrong but you can't take a free drop if something isn't in place now.

As of today no LR in place today - and I am thinking that none will be in place next weekend - even although I believe that the club now recognises the need for one. My scenario for the coming weekend says 'no LR in place though one may be coming'

Do I take free relief...

 

[rulefan]

Yes. Play to the Rules in force.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes. Play to the Rules in force.

I would normally not do so on grounds of it being against 'the spirit of the game' - but surely 'the spirit of the game' is to play to the rules whilst adhering to golf etiquette.

And even if I knew (as I do) that a LR was on the way - if it were not in place then...

However were I do do this in such a scenario that might make me more unpopular than I already am...

 

[Marshy77]

I would normally not do so on grounds of it being against 'the spirit of the game' - but surely 'the spirit of the game' is to play to the rules whilst adhering to golf etiquette.

And even if I knew (as I do) that a LR was on the way - if it were not in place then...

However were I do do this in such a scenario that might make me more unpopular than I already am...

By playing to the rules in force now? How can that make you unpopular? Surely you'd be playing to the rules like everybody else

 

[Slab]

I would normally not do so on grounds of it being against 'the spirit of the game' - but surely 'the spirit of the game' is to play to the rules whilst adhering to golf etiquette.

And even if I knew (as I do) that a LR was on the way - if it were not in place then...

However were I do do this in such a scenario that might make me more unpopular than I already am...

My advice; just club-up!

 

[clubchamp98]

Play to the rules.
Your club has realised there is a need for a rule change
But until it’s in place you play to the rule in force now.

So you sit in the club house and you have missed qualification by a shot.
Guy next to you says “ I had the same thing but took relief as the LR isn’t in place yet”
He qualifies ???? You don’t!!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Play to the rules.
Your club has realised there is a need for a rule change
But until it’s in place you play to the rule in force now.

So you sit in the club house and you have missed qualification by a shot.
Guy next to you says “ I had the same thing but took relief as the LR isn’t in place yet”
He qualifies ???? You don’t!!!

I like the thinking. That the, now quite many, in the club I have discussed this with (including the Club Pros; Club Manager; ex-Chairman, and a committee member or two) might scoff incredulously and dismiss it as nonsense does not mean I am wrong and nor does it mean that others in the club do no know about it.

I have asked the club if there is going to be anything in place for Saturday - if they say Not then I will mention that in the unlikely event of the scenario arising I will take advantage of the rules. In fact I could easily find myself in a bunker where the surround interferes with my swing or follow-through on some shots I might play, even though it might not prevent me playing a shot. I might even then take relief in such circumstances.

We have a few bunkers that are very deep greenside edge - a couple over 6ft deep from sand level to green level. If I was close to the face of one of these - or indeed close to the face of ANY bunker - why would I not drop back into the middle of the bunker and away from the face if the 'face' prevented a full follow-through.

For the @rulies: Does the rule that gives free relief from an immovable artificial obstruction (not declared an Integral Object) extend to my follow-through?

 

[clubchamp98]

I like the thinking. That the, now quite many, in the club I have discussed this with (including the Club Pros; Club Manager; ex-Chairman, and a committee member or two) might scoff incredulously and dismiss it as nonsense does not mean I am wrong and nor does it mean that others in the club do no know about it.

I have asked the club if there is going to be anything in place for Saturday - if they say Not then I will mention that in the unlikely event of the scenario arising I will take advantage of the rules. In fact I could easily find myself in a bunker where the surround interferes with my swing or follow-through on some shots I might play, even though it might not prevent me playing a shot. I might even then take relief in such circumstances.

We have a few bunkers that are very deep greenside edge - a couple over 6ft deep from sand level to green level. If I was close to the face of one of these - or indeed close to the face of ANY bunker - why would I not drop back into the middle of the bunker and away from the face if the 'face' prevented a full follow-through.

For the @rulies: Does the rule that gives free relief from an immovable artificial obstruction (not declared an Integral Object) extend to my follow-through?

Yes I’d does .
Interfering with your stance or swing.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes I’d does .
Interfering with your stance or swing.

Thanks sir! And so - if my ball is in a bunker - even a fair distance from the face - but the face is high and I can see problems getting out - if I address my ball and do a follow through and my club strikes the face - then I can take free relief in the bunker - where it is full relief and I drop within one club length of that reference point of full relief 16(c)

In this way I can drop away from the face of the bunker and I will potentially have a much easier shot out.

Or I take a 1 penalty shot and can drop outside of the bunker in accordance with 16(b)

I can just see the looks on my playing companions faces when I take free relief in the bunker away from the green-side face of the bunker surround.

This situation has happened a few times to me with our new bunkers. With the very steep surrounds, we have the sand in the bunker sloped and smoothed so that a ball will run away from the steep sides into the middle of a bunker. But that does not always happen - especially if the sand has not been properly smoothed, and the ball holds up close to the face.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

hmmm...dear forummers...in Club Champs tomorrow and Sunday - do I take free relief from the bunker front face if I can drop in the bunker at a place where I have an easier shot to get out.

Seriously conflicted.

I am thinking that I may be the only member who knows of the ruling that enables me to do that.

 

[williamalex1]

hmmm...dear forummers...in Club Champs tomorrow and Sunday - do I take free relief from the bunker front face if I can drop in the bunker at a place where I have an easier shot to get out.

Seriously conflicted.

I am thinking that I may be the only member who knows of the ruling that enables me to do that.

Don't go in the bunker , sorted

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Don't go in the bunker , sorted

Bleedin' 'eck Billy - never thocht o that.

Impeding my backswing is one thing - restricting my follow-through is quite another. The former is not so likely - the latter is very likely.

 

[clubchamp98]

hmmm...dear forummers...in Club Champs tomorrow and Sunday - do I take free relief from the bunker front face if I can drop in the bunker at a place where I have an easier shot to get out.

Seriously conflicted.

I am thinking that I may be the only member who knows of the ruling that enables me to do that.

Why just play to the rules.