Is this in the bunker?

[garyinderry]

Does the direction of the hole not come into play here?

Is it a free drop. 1 club length? Not nearer the hole. If the pin is to the right of the picture can he not drop on the grass?

 

[rulie]

Does the direction of the hole not come into play here?

Is it a free drop. 1 club length? Not nearer the hole. If the pin is to the right of the picture can he not drop on the grass?

If he is taking a free drop, he must drop in the bunker. If there is no nearest point of complete relief (such as not nearer the hole), or maximum available relief, within the bunker, he can drop outside the bunker with one penalty stroke.

 

[tobybarker]

I think the question is...were you entitled to a free drop from the burrowing animal hole.
I'd say yes but drop in the bunker

tricky to do so no neaerer the hole!

 

[garyinderry]

If he is taking a free drop, he must drop in the bunker. If there is no nearest point of complete relief (such as not nearer the hole), or maximum available relief, within the bunker, he can drop outside the bunker with one penalty stroke.

I still don't understand why though. If a free drop of a club length clears him of the bunker can he not drop it outside?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I still don't understand why though. If a free drop of a club length clears him of the bunker can he not drop it outside?

Especially if the ruling is based upon the premis that where the ball is sitting is not actually in the bunker. If the ball is not in the bunker then why must relief be taken, and the ball dropped, in the bunker.

 

[salfordlad]

I still don't understand why though. If a free drop of a club length clears him of the bunker can he not drop it outside?

See Rule 16.1c(1). The free relief option for interference with an abnormal course condition for a ball in the bunker places a number of restrictions on the relief area. One of them is it must be in the bunker.

 

[rulie]

The bunker is a different area of the course than the surrounding grass (most likely general area). When free relief is being taken, the ball must generally be dropped in the same area of the course as where it lies. As above, see Rule 16.1c(1).
Note that there are five areas of the course - four specific areas -teeing area of the hole being played, all bunkers, putting green of the hole being played, and all penalty areas. All the rest is general area.

 

[Steven Rules]

Especially if the ruling is based upon the premis that where the ball is sitting is not actually in the bunker. If the ball is not in the bunker then why must relief be taken, and the ball dropped, in the bunker.

I think the overwhelming consensus from the experts in earlier posts is that the ball is in the bunker. So the (free) relief area must also be in the bunker.

If the ball was ruled to be in the general area, then the relief area would also be in the general area.

 

[Colin L]

Is there a scenario where relief can be taken nearer the hole?

Stroke and distance when your ball has hit something and rebounded behind you.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Stroke and distance when your ball has hit something and rebounded behind you.

…and plenty of others where your original ball position is closer to the hole than where it has ended up. But that’s a separate discussion about S&D.

 

[garyinderry]

I'm a little confused by this. In definitions it says an area where the sand has spilled outside the prepared area is not in the bunker.

To me, that looks a lot like a damaged area where the sand has spilled over.

But I'd be delighted to know what ruling you'd give if a player asked for relief. Cos I'm not sure.

I have to say I'm in agreement here with Ian and struggling to get on board that this ball is in the bunker by the definition of what a bunker is. This is clearly not an area that was designed to be a bunker. It looks like damage or a hole made that has sand repeatedly spilled into it.
In fact if you investigate it you could probably find the edge of the bunker lining and it wouldn't be in that hole.
It's a very unfortunate situation for anyone to find themselves in. The area should really have been marked GUR.
Personally I'd be happy with anyone appealing to a ref that it wasn't in the bunker. It just doesn't feel right to me. The styling of the bunker is a clear cut parkland defined line. Had this been a rough and ready links I could get on board with it possibly being part of the bunker.

 

[rulefan]

​

Bunker​

A specially prepared area of sand,


Is this what the area around the animal damages is? Perhaps the animal could have prepared it

 

[Crow]

​

Bunker​

A specially prepared area of sand,


Is this what the area around the animal damages is? Perhaps the animal could have prepared it

Looking at the picture, the area to the right of the ball is a specially prepared area of sand.

The ball lies in a damaged piece of ground in the rough. This could be animal damage, but it definitely doesn't look like a specially prepared area of sand to me.

 

[IanM]

I'm left wondering how far that damaged area needs to extend, before it's no longer in the bunker?

 

[bobmac]

Of course it's not in the bunker.

 

[Colin L]

Stroke and distance when your ball has hit something and rebounded behind you.

…and plenty of others where your original ball position is closer to the hole than where it has ended up. But that’s a separate discussion about S&D.

I do apologise for mentioning stroke and distance in a discussion about taking relief. I have obviously been misled by Stroke and Distance Relief being included in the heading of Rule 18 and Rule 18.1 being headed Stroke and Distance Relief allowed at any time. into thinking stroke and distance was a form of relief. Silly of me.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I do apologise for mentioning stroke and distance in a discussion about taking relief. I have obviously been misled by Stroke and Distance Relief being included in the heading of Rule 18 and Rule 18.1 being headed Stroke and Distance Relief allowed at any time. into thinking stroke and distance was a form of relief. Silly of me.

Apologies. Wasn't disagreeing with you…certainly not correcting you. Just adding to your post as so many don’t understand the circumstances when S&D relief is afforded i.e. always and any time. Indeed the 10 handicap guy I played yesterday didn’t.

 

[Colin L]

Apologies. Wasn't disagreeing with you…certainly not correcting you. Just adding to your post as so many don’t understand the circumstances when S&D relief is afforded i.e. always and any time. Indeed the 10 handicap guy I played yesterday didn’t.

No worries. Sorry for seeming to have wakened up in grumpy old curmudgeon mode, this morning. I've popped a smiley on the end of my comment to soften it a bit!

 

[clubchamp98]

I have to say I'm in agreement here with Ian and struggling to get on board that this ball is in the bunker by the definition of what a bunker is. This is clearly not an area that was designed to be a bunker. It looks like damage or a hole made that has sand repeatedly spilled into it.
In fact if you investigate it you could probably find the edge of the bunker lining and it wouldn't be in that hole.
It's a very unfortunate situation for anyone to find themselves in. The area should really have been marked GUR.
Personally I'd be happy with anyone appealing to a ref that it wasn't in the bunker. It just doesn't feel right to me. The styling of the bunker is a clear cut parkland defined line. Had this been a rough and ready links I could get on board with it possibly being part of the bunker.

I agree.
If that was a hole made by an animal and the ball had gone down it how would you define the edge of the bunker If the grass wasn’t damaged ?

Surley a line from both edges in a line with the grass edge.

I just can’t see how all the refs on here can say “ that’s in the bunker”

Its clearly not! imo.

 

[Slab]

If there was no animal hole I'd be hitting my typical bunker shot as my next stroke.. ergo its in the bunker