IanMac
Well-known member
Fair question. Not sure exactly. I'm only quoting males under scratch and some of them are away. I think we have about 600 males.That’s very impressive, how many members do you have in total?
Fair question. Not sure exactly. I'm only quoting males under scratch and some of them are away. I think we have about 600 males.That’s very impressive, how many members do you have in total?
Club Champs must be a good day.Fair question. Not sure exactly. I'm only quoting males under scratch and some of them are away. I think we have about 600 males.
Just to add. Before WHS we probably had about 5 plus handicappers. I could name them. They are still the standout players and a few well known names.Fair question. Not sure exactly. I'm only quoting males under scratch and some of them are away. I think we have about 600 males.
Which Club if you don’t mind me asking?Just to add. Before WHS we probably had about 5 plus handicappers. I could name them. They are still the standout players and a few well known names.
It's a fair question but I'm not going to be specific. Sorry, you'll just have to believe me, or not. However I'm not making it up.Which Club if you don’t mind me asking?
It wasn’t a trick question and I have no reason to doubt you.It's a fair question but I'm not going to be specific. Sorry, you'll just have to believe me, or not. However I'm not making it up.
My point is that there are clubs that have a lot of lower handicappers and when I look at our competitions they generally don't bother to play since WHS. When they do play the conditions have to be right. They use a competition to get their competitive rounds on their record. We have various tee options and they choose the easiest for the long hitters. The old guys choose the ladies tees and so do some younger guys.
It's a messy situation.
Are these vanity handicappers also complaining about being uncompetitive in handicap competitions?It's a fair question but I'm not going to be specific. Sorry, you'll just have to believe me, or not. However I'm not making it up.
My point is that there are clubs that have a lot of lower handicappers and when I look at our competitions they generally don't bother to play since WHS. When they do play the conditions have to be right. They use a competition to get their competitive rounds on their record. We have various tee options and they choose the easiest for the long hitters. The old guys choose the ladies tees and so do some younger guys.
It's a messy situation.
No, I don't think they are too interested but they do have to protect their handicaps so they can make the cut for open scratch comps in Ireland. The cut off is usually something like +2!Are these vanity handicappers also complaining about being uncompetitive in handicap competitions?
If this is not manipulation then I'm unsure what is!!It's a fair question but I'm not going to be specific. Sorry, you'll just have to believe me, or not. However I'm not making it up.
My point is that there are clubs that have a lot of lower handicappers and when I look at our competitions they generally don't bother to play since WHS. When they do play the conditions have to be right. They use a competition to get their competitive rounds on their record. We have various tee options and they choose the easiest for the long hitters. The old guys choose the ladies tees and so do some younger guys.
It's a messy situation.
Genuine question.If this is not manipulation then I'm unsure what is!!
The tees played from make no difference to handicapping. Thanks to slope and CR, there is no such thing as easier or more difficult tees, from a differential point of view. Low handicappers gain nothing from playing the shortest tees.My point is that there are clubs that have a lot of lower handicappers and when I look at our competitions they generally don't bother to play since WHS. When they do play the conditions have to be right. They use a competition to get their competitive rounds on their record. We have various tee options and they choose the easiest for the long hitters. The old guys choose the ladies tees and so do some younger guys.
There more certainly are, unless you're claiming that Course ratings are flawless, which they clearly are notThe tees played from make no difference to handicapping. Thanks to slope and CR, there is no such thing as easier or more difficult tees, from a differential point of view. Low handicappers gain nothing from playing the shortest tees.
I will agree though that WHS has made things more uncomfortable for some low men. The term vanity is used a lot in this context, but while valid in some extreme cases, it implies a criticism that is not always or entirely merited.
Playing off scratch or a low HI is something to be proud of, a worthy goal of to some extent mastering golf, and does garner deserved renown and respect from the rest of us who are many shots from that level and know we will never get near it. Some understanding is due to lower men who did find it easier under the old method to maintain their low handicap. Now a hard worked for scratch can blow back a few shots in a month or two. Not that their scores dont suggest that is a correct indicator of their form. It is. But previously, they could more easily have held their scratch or whatever handicap, and so retained their status. Its a different system. But I can understand how they too, even if it made them uncompetitive while their form was off, have some nostalgia for a world where retaining their position in it was less buffeted round to round.
This has always been the case with very low player. Under the old system they would only play monthly medals and medal board comps at my place otherwise they were getting .1 back if they didn’t shoot in the mid 60s gross.It's a fair question but I'm not going to be specific. Sorry, you'll just have to believe me, or not. However I'm not making it up.
My point is that there are clubs that have a lot of lower handicappers and when I look at our competitions they generally don't bother to play since WHS. When they do play the conditions have to be right. They use a competition to get their competitive rounds on their record. We have various tee options and they choose the easiest for the long hitters. The old guys choose the ladies tees and so do some younger guys.
It's a messy situation.
There might be lots of vanity caps all over the country but no mention how they got them.This has always been the case with very low player. Under the old system they would only play monthly medals and medal board comps at my place otherwise they were getting .1 back if they didn’t shoot in the mid 60s gross.
You’ve also just about confirmed that you have a problem with handicap manipulation at your club just as clubchamp does. Seems like there is a hell of a lot of vanity caps in some clubs. No wonder these people aren’t competitive in the weekly comps.
One doesnt have to claim course ratings are flawless. Some may be flawed.There more certainly are, unless you're claiming that Course ratings are flawless, which they clearly are not
Such handicap manipulation has always been a factor with low handicappers.This has always been the case with very low player. Under the old system they would only play monthly medals and medal board comps at my place otherwise they were getting .1 back if they didn’t shoot in the mid 60s gross.
I can imo.One doesnt have to claim course ratings are flawless. Some may be flawed.
But we can safely say, that unless the golfer making the decision that one tee is more favourable to his handicap than another is trained in course and slope rating, then he is wrong. I dont think any sensible claim could be made that an average golfer who hasnt read, let alone trained and gained experience in the matter, making an off the cuff judgement, is offering a valid assessment more likely to be accurate than those who made the official rating.
Have you rated the course and its slope and identified the errors in its official rating that show you are not adequately adjusted when you play those tees ?I can imo.
Off the whites I can’t reach most of the fairway bunkers.
Off the yellows I can reach them.
So off the yellows plays harder to me as I lose two shots.
Driver is the strongest club in my bag.
So just hitting 3 wood leaves me the same second shots but with two shots less handicap.
One doesnt have to claim course ratings are flawless. Some may be flawed.
But we can safely say, that unless the golfer making the decision that one tee is more favourable to his handicap than another is trained in course and slope rating, then he is wrong. I dont think any sensible claim could be made that an average golfer who hasnt read, let alone trained and gained experience in the matter, making an off the cuff judgement, is offering a valid assessment more likely to be accurate than those who made the official rating.
So if you found a driver that hit the ball 20 yards further then your course would actually become more difficult for you?I can imo.
Off the whites I can’t reach most of the fairway bunkers.
Off the yellows I can reach them.
So off the yellows plays harder to me as I lose two shots.
Driver is the strongest club in my bag.
So just hitting 3 wood leaves me the same second shots but with two shots less handicap.