POLL: How do you feel about WHS?

[rulefan]

So (question to anyone) is there a number of GIR's the "model" bogey golfer is expected to achieve on a course to be rated?

GIR is normally related to hole par. But a par 4 can be anything from 240 yards to 490. So GIR varies if based on length alone. Add on all the obstacles (listed above) that may be encountered on the way, who knows.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

But having the same handicap regardless of which course you played was better?

If you dodge the course design in the way clubchamp does then you just leave yourself longer shots in, therefore making it harder to score, which may have been the course was likely to have been designed
Maybe it’s not such a problem if you play a short easy course, but play one of a proper length that is more difficult the strategy starts to come apart pretty quickly.

Now, I’m sure clubchamp will be along in a moment to tell us he is better from 180 than 150 so all is well.

No, it wasn't better.

The issue at my club is that everyone gets to choose. I don't agree with that way of running a competition and I'm not alone but that's what we've got.

So, on a calm day it makes sense to go off the back sticks. Just hit driver on every hole, apart from par 3s obviously, and you are fairly safe. Obviously the scratch guys are fairly straight as well. Every one of them will tell you it makes them slightly more competitive and that's how they are able to maintain their plus handicaps which they need to keep very low to give them a chance to enter the big boys stuff.

It's a proper track.

On a windy day best to go off the ladies tees!

Never a good option to go off our old medal tee.

Winners generally come from back sticks or ladies tees.

Again, you'll have to take my word for it.

Hitting an extra club or two into a few greens is not as bad as you suggest on a links course. Sometimes it can be an advantage.

My solution would be to run the competition off the medals but the plus handicappers wouldn't play and the old guys wouldn't play. Inclusion and all that...

Given we think the slope stuff is accurate, we think we can run our competitions fairly off different tees. So we are one step away from running our competitions across multiple golf courses if that assumption is correct!

 

[clubchamp98]

What about when the wind changes or the fairways firm or soften up, The off whites you can reach the bunkers and off yellows you can clear them

That’s where course management comes in.
But holes go different ways so some are downwind some are not.

 

[clubchamp98]

But having the same handicap regardless of which course you played was better?

If you dodge the course design in the way clubchamp does then you just leave yourself longer shots in, therefore making it harder to score, which may have been the course was likely to have been designed
Maybe it’s not such a problem if you play a short easy course, but play one of a proper length that is more difficult the strategy starts to come apart pretty quickly.

Now, I’m sure clubchamp will be along in a moment to tell us he is better from 180 than 150 so all is well.

How am I dodging the course design playing off the white competition tees. 6400 yds.?

 

[Deleted member 36483]

How am I dodging the course design playing off the white competition tees. 6400 yds.?

So you get to choose your tee in competition also? You probably already mentioned, sorry if you did.

 

[clubchamp98]

So you get to choose your tee in competition also? You probably already mentioned, sorry if you did.

No we don’t .!
Club comps white tees.
Seniors yellows.
Ladies red.

But in winter they close the whites and everything is off yellows.

So to say “ I’m dodging the course design “ shows how ill informed some are.”

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Just to bring things back to the original question, based on the poll numbers at this time:

50.4% are largely okay with WHS
33.1% are not great about it
The rest are ambivalent

An interesting point, those who really dislike it are only half the number of those who completely like it. I think if some people were hoping for a landslide 'anti' vote, this isn't it.

Not scientific or a huge number involved but it is a snapshot of a section who do like their golf enough to come on a forum.

I don't think anyone was expecting a landslide either way. The poll indicates to me that there could be a problem as I would hope that everyone who plays competitive club golf is fairly happy with the foundation it relies upon, i.e. the handicap system.

Also, I know this is a golf forum but many seem to spend more time on football threads.

 

[Dunesman]

Just to bring things back to the original question, based on the poll numbers at this time:

50.4% are largely okay with WHS
33.1% are not great about it
The rest are ambivalent

An interesting point, those who really dislike it are only half the number of those who completely like it. I think if some people were hoping for a landslide 'anti' vote, this isn't it.

Not scientific or a huge number involved but it is a snapshot of a section who do like their golf enough to come on a forum.

I find those numbers extraordinarily damning. What was the point of changing if a third consider it a negative step ? Success woukd have been everyone in favour of it. That a fifth or so of golfers have been burned, for a gain that nobody has every clearly explained or justified, is surely a monumental self inflicted cock up.

 

[Dunesman]

Mistaken belief joke.
Comfort benefit I get two less shots off the white but the slope is higher so I find it easier off the longer course.

Off the whites grass of some sort.
Off the yellows Sand

I know my own game and am not mistaken.

I dont think an unquantified unsystematic 'knowing' can be anyway be taken seriously as superior to a course assessment. Even if you believe you are not mistaken, objectively, you must recognised that the chances that you are wrong is close to a certainty.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I find those numbers extraordinarily damning. What was the point of changing if a third consider it a negative step ? Success woukd have been everyone in favour of it. That a fifth or so of golfers have been burned, for a gain that nobody has every clearly explained or justified, is surely a monumental self inflicted cock up.

I think you are reading that through a very particular lens if that is what you take from the numbers. Less than 9% actively dislike a major change in a system, in a sport where people really don't like change. I'd say the people in charge would be ecstatic about that.

Another 24% are not that keen but not that bothered. The rest are okay or don't care.

No change of this nature gets a 100% thumbs up, these numbers are about as good as it gets. I get that you and others will not accept that but there isn't much I can do about that.

 

[RichA]

I think you are reading that through a very particular lens if that is what you take from the numbers. Less than 9% actively dislike a major change in a system, in a sport where people really don't like change. I'd say the people in charge would be ecstatic about that.

Another 24% are not that keen but not that bothered. The rest are okay or don't care.

No change of this nature gets a 100% thumbs up, these numbers are about as good as it gets. I get that you and others will not accept that but there isn't much I can do about that.

Bearing in mind also that 75% of our community on here is over 50 years old. It would be interesting to know how the younger golfers missing from our forum feel about it.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Bearing in mind also that 75% of our community on here is over 50 years old. It would be interesting to know how the younger golfers missing from our forum feel about it.

I would hope we'll soon find out what the feeling is when, assuming they will, the R&A publish their findings.

Anyone can justify any point of view against our poll here and I will again do that...

We need a very large proportion of competitive club golfers, across the range of abilities, to buy into a handicap system otherwise we risk losing something important.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

How am I dodging the course design playing off the white competition tees. 6400 yds.?

It was your mate Ian that suggested you were dodging the course design. 6400 isn’t long, our equivalent yellows are 6500 and change. Comp tees a shade over 6750.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

One doesnt have to claim course ratings are flawless. Some may be flawed.
But we can safely say, that unless the golfer making the decision that one tee is more favourable to his handicap than another is trained in course and slope rating, then he is wrong. I dont think any sensible claim could be made that an average golfer who hasnt read, let alone trained and gained experience in the matter, making an off the cuff judgement, is offering a valid assessment more likely to be accurate than those who made the official rating.

"Off the cuff"

Jesus man, the raters walk -dont play - the course once, you think they have a better grasp of how hard each set of tees play than a member? You're really saying this?

Brilliant. Be about a month till the re-rating of my home course comes through, I'll be far closer than the team that did it in 2012. Figures will be posted as promised to mjweather

 

[clubchamp98]

But having the same handicap regardless of which course you played was better?

If you dodge the course design in the way clubchamp does then you just leave yourself longer shots in, therefore making it harder to score, which may have been the course was likely to have been designed
Maybe it’s not such a problem if you play a short easy course, but play one of a proper length that is more difficult the strategy starts to come apart pretty quickly.

Now, I’m sure clubchamp will be along in a moment to tell us he is better from 180 than 150 so all is well.

You want to explain the second line then?

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

I would hope we'll soon find out what the feeling is when, assuming they will, the R&A publish their findings.

Anyone can justify any point of view against our poll here and I will again do that...

We need a very large proportion of competitive club golfers, across the range of abilities, to buy into a handicap system otherwise we risk losing something important.

To you!

How many handicap golfers in the UK play in the weekend comp? I bet even the majority of golfers at your club don’t.

The vast majority of golfer do appear to have bought into WHS and are merrily getting on with enjoying playing golf. Hitting a ball with a stick into a small hole hasn’t changed.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

You want to explain the second line then?

Want to read the post I was replying to?

 

[clubchamp98]

I dont think an unquantified unsystematic 'knowing' can be anyway be taken seriously as superior to a course assessment. Even if you believe you are not mistaken, objectively, you must recognised that the chances that you are wrong is close to a certainty.

I was talking about ME.
Not anyone else or the system just me.
But you seem to know me better than myself.!

 

[clubchamp98]

It was your mate Ian that suggested you were dodging the course design. 6400 isn’t long, our equivalent yellows are 6500 and change. Comp tees a shade over 6750.

Bully for you but mines long enough for me.

So most on here agree that golfers should play the tees that suit their ability.
I do that but you think I’m bypassing the course design.
That’s a pathetic statement and just shows you know very little about playing the game, especially my game.

 

[clubchamp98]

Want to read the post I was replying to?

Not really but if your going to name me at least have the decency to back it up when asked a question.
Ditto I was replying to a specific post myself before you started making assumptions!

Bypassing the course design!
What does that even mean?

You say your an old cat 1 golfer ???
No I think your a Bot just trolling .