Nomads to get official handicaps

[Old Skier]

You can already join clubs in the South West for less than £40 and get a WHS handicap, access to that clubs comps and Opens elsewhere, County Card and EG insurance etc. Still don’t understand why a nomad wouldn’t do this instead of this limited EG scheme with no County card limited comp access etc.

I'm not for or against and the arguments in your post have already gone up the chain. In the end as has already pointed out, most courses let "nomads" use there courses anyway. EG are looking at nomad comps but my feelings are its more to do with income generating.

 

[rulefan]

I'm not for or against and the arguments in your post have already gone up the chain. In the end as has already pointed out, most courses let "nomads" use there courses anyway. EG are looking at nomad comps but my feelings are its more to do with income generating.

It's more to do with R&A threatening to set up a nomads scheme if the relevant national authority doesn't.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Prestigious events are all scratch so bandits have no impact anyway.

A relatively well known phenomenon is that of vanity handicaps which can be manipulated lower to make the ballot in scratch events. This was very evident in many national level amateur events where people playing rarely are competitive. You may say, so what if they want to pay an entry fee with little / no chance of winning. However, there are many good players who cannot play due to being balloted out.

 

[rulefan]

A relatively well known phenomenon is that of vanity handicaps which can be manipulated lower to make the ballot in scratch events. This was very evident in many national level amateur events where people playing rarely are competitive.

I would be interested in knowing which national level events you have experienced this in. The ones I am involved in have very rigorous selection processes and virtually all the players are well known to the organisers. If they are not already known enquiries are made.

 

[SammmeBee]

A relatively well known phenomenon is that of vanity handicaps which can be manipulated lower to make the ballot in scratch events. This was very evident in many national level amateur events where people playing rarely are competitive. You may say, so what if they want to pay an entry fee with little / no chance of winning. However, there are many good players who cannot play due to being balloted out.

Completely this.....so many allegedly scratch golfers keeping proper 1s and 2s out of events......

 

[Deleted member 15717]

I don’t get that train of thought. To get to scratch is incredibly difficult. You have to be good, and the level of consistency in your game has to be superb for an extended run - especially in the old handicap systems. It’s a lot of 0.1s to be subtracted to get to where you need to be.

If they have got to scratch, vanity or not, they have put in hard work to get there....why shouldn’t they be allowed to enter the comps?!

 

[rulefan]

Completely this.....so many allegedly scratch golfers keeping proper 1s and 2s out of events......

I'd be interested in knowing which elite events this is purportedly happening in.
In addition to competition entries vetted by EG the County authorities regularly audit cat 1 players.

 

[USER1999]

Completely this.....so many allegedly scratch golfers keeping proper 1s and 2s out of events......

Where is that flipping fishing emoji when I need it?

 

[SammmeBee]

No ? ....maybe not so much English Am, but, notwithstanding bad days at the office, just look down the bottom of the leaderboards at some of the scores or just go a watch some of them play!

The tournaments for lesser players/older types are worse - how some of those players maintain the handicaps they do then I have no idea but we still have these clubs that have ‘playing seasons’ which doesn’t help.....maybe WHS will sort these out once they’ve all submitted a few scores....

 

[SammmeBee]

PS.....I don’t believe EG or anyone else can do much about it as if you have an official handicap then it’s an official handicap, just saying how it is.....

 

[rulefan]

No ? ....maybe not so much English Am, but, notwithstanding bad days at the office, just look down the bottom of the leaderboards at some of the scores or just go a watch some of them play!

The tournaments for lesser players/older types are worse - how some of those players maintain the handicaps they do then I have no idea but we still have these clubs that have ‘playing seasons’ which doesn’t help.....maybe WHS will sort these out once they’ve all submitted a few scores....

If not the English Amateur then what level of event run by EG are you referring to? The Brabazon? EG only run a couple or are you referring to County run events?

 

[Old Skier]

Update

Good afternoon.

Welcome to the latest club update on the development of an independent golfer connectivity platform.

When launched, this platform will offer non-members of golf clubs an official handicap index and personal liability insurance.

The initial aim is to inspire golfers to play more often and to increase the connection between an avid, independent golfer and their local club/facility.

We will create a best-in-class platform with the ultimate goal of educating independent golfers on the value of golf club membership and inspiring them to follow this pathway to greater participation.
​

Will independent golfers have performance measured using the same system as golf club members?
Independent golfers will have their handicap index calculated via the same WHS system as golf club members and will hold their own unique membership number.

In future, this will allow a seamless transition to membership as follows:

• If an independent golfer chooses to progress from the scheme and join a golf club, then the club will simply request the unique membership number and playing history as they would do another golf club member.
• The independent golfer will then be resigned from the programme, with their details transferred to their new club.
• Independent golfers will be clearly identifiable on the WHS platform.

How will independent golfers be educated on the rules and etiquette of the game?
Education on rules and etiquette will be delivered through all communication channels, with specific content relating to these areas included on the website.

But please remember that many independent golfers are experienced players.

• Many will have experienced society golf and society competitions
• Just as many will have played the game for a considerable length of time
• Many will be knowledgeable on rules and etiquette

Ongoing education is important for all golfers - independent golfers and members alike.​

How will the setting up of the independent golfer scheme impact on the workload of golf clubs?
The simple answer is there will not be a burden of work for golf clubs.

• The connectivity platform will be run and maintained by England Golf.
• Handicaps will be allocated and centrally managed by England Golf.

The new platform will be designed to educate and inspire on golf club membership. Through the provision of an official handicap, we aim to create a greater desire among independent golfers to play more often at their local facility, measure their progress and develop a stronger connection.


For clubs that want to connect we will provide a simple connectivity pathway to help drive memberships and increased revenue.​

​

 

[Swango1980]

They seemed to put a lot of attention in trying to tell us many independent golfers know the rules. One would imagine it is a sensitive topic. If they have to make that much effort in reminding us this, one might think that many also have very limited knowledge on the rules (if that wasn't the case, why mention it at all?)

 

[jim8flog]

I've been pondering this for a few days too...
Unless clubs are going to run a Nomad prize alongside the normal prizes at Opens..where are these handicaps going to be used?
It sounds like many, maybe most, clubs won't allow Nomad handicaps into their Opens. Are there going to be enough nomads to warrant a prize?
With handicap tracking apps that can do the work unofficially, the number that might take up the Nomad handicap appears to be not that large..
Could this turn out to be a massive waste of time and money?

I have not had to worry about it for years but I can remember a time when a lot of clubs would not take visitors who either did not have a handicap or a reasonable handicap. I used to play away a lot and with many clubs it was the first thing they asked when enquiring about playing.

I would imagine lot of societies with members without a handicap and they can now be encouraged to get one. I once lost out quite majorly to such a player, given 28 by the organiser when it was clearly evident he was a much better player.

 

[ForeRight]

They seemed to put a lot of attention in trying to tell us many independent golfers know the rules. One would imagine it is a sensitive topic. If they have to make that much effort in reminding us this, one might think that many also have very limited knowledge on the rules (if that wasn't the case, why mention it at all?)

From my experience of the response of a small number of clubs to the idea of nomad golfers having official handicaps, I would suggest that maybe England Golf are trying to address the concerns of the clubs with regards to nomad golfers.

 

[Swango1980]

From my experience of the response of a small number of clubs to the idea of nomad golfers having official handicaps, I would suggest that maybe England Golf are trying to address the concerns of the clubs with regards to nomad golfers.

It is a difficult one. Because, I have played with many people who play golf quite regularly, but not a member of a club. Usually friends, or friends of friends. Pretty much every single one has very little knowledge of the rules compared to someone who plays at a club. And that is not a criticism, why would they? They never play in comps, but just go out for a bit of fun. Not like they've club golfers educating them whilst playing comps.

Some know the basic rules, but would still drop one when hitting out of bounds or losing ball, drop the ball in the wrong locations, etc. Some have shocking knowledge on the rules, or are not bothered. They will not count air shots. In fact, if they hit a bad shot they will often take a mulligan and try again. Take a drop in a bad lie. Hack down tree branches or clear weeds to get a better swing.

So, I can see why club golfers have concerns. In my own experience, I only really started to learn the rules when I played with different people in club competitions. Before that, my equally inexperienced mate was never going to call me out on a rule and make me refer to Rule x.y in the Rules of Golf.

 

[Crumplezone]

It is a difficult one. Because, I have played with many people who play golf quite regularly, but not a member of a club. Usually friends, or friends of friends. Pretty much every single one has very little knowledge of the rules compared to someone who plays at a club. And that is not a criticism, why would they? They never play in comps, but just go out for a bit of fun. Not like they've club golfers educating them whilst playing comps.

Some know the basic rules, but would still drop one when hitting out of bounds or losing ball, drop the ball in the wrong locations, etc. Some have shocking knowledge on the rules, or are not bothered. They will not count air shots. In fact, if they hit a bad shot they will often take a mulligan and try again. Take a drop in a bad lie. Hack down tree branches or clear weeds to get a better swing.

So, I can see why club golfers have concerns. In my own experience, I only really started to learn the rules when I played with different people in club competitions. Before that, my equally inexperienced mate was never going to call me out on a rule and make me refer to Rule x.y in the Rules of Golf.

I have never been a member of a club and never played a comp, but make sure that I have a good knowledge of the rules. I think my knowledge of the rules is better than any of the club golfers I've played with. I have been given incorrect advice on several occasions.

 

[Swango1980]

I have never been a member of a club and never played a comp, but make sure that I have a good knowledge of the rules. I think my knowledge of the rules is better than any of the club golfers I've played with. I have been given incorrect advice on several occasions.

I'm not saying all non members are completely ignorant, nor club golfers rule gurus.

But, it would be naive to think in general terms, non members would have the same level of knowledge as club golfers with handicaps. Again, no criticism of non members, but most do not sit down with a rule book and learn the rules before a knock about with their buddies. If they did, I'd applaud their enthusiasm.

 

[Beedee]

I'm not saying all non members are completely ignorant, nor club golfers rule gurus.

But, it would be naive to think in general terms, non members would have the same level of knowledge as club golfers with handicaps. Again, no criticism of non members, but most do not sit down with a rule book and learn the rules before a knock about with their buddies. If they did, I'd applaud their enthusiasm.

I'd say you're doing nomads a disservice and giving far too much credit to club members. Any nomad keen enough to want to pay to get a handicap is keen enough to know the rules. And I've regularly heard some pretty basic "misunderstandings" of the rules from people who have been members for years.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I'd be interested in knowing which elite events this is purportedly happening in.
In addition to competition entries vetted by EG the County authorities regularly audit cat 1 players.

They are mainly foreign entrants who enter open competition balloted events and get in with their low handicap. I am not suggesting this has happened in the past with CONGU handicaps but the option is now open as our elite and low single figure players can return general play score in favourable conditions to improve their handicap prior to the season.