Alternative to handicaps

[Golf is fun]

I realise this might sound a bit strange, but bear with me as I originally came from another sport before golf and it didn't have handicaps. I'll be honest I don't truly understand the appeal of handicaps, so I am probably in a minority, they basically track your recent form and you can "win" by performing better than you have on average recently, even if others played better than you. To me the only real reason for handicaps is so people can bet or win prizes, if it was just for fun it doesn't really matter if your mate was 10 shots better than you, and yes I am jealous that in my previous sport you could set a national record and be rewarded with £25 yet most would collect more than that for a random Saturday morning roll up.

So assuming the money isn't going away, is there a better way people of differing skill can play together without just adding or subtracting shots which is easily manipulated if one chooses it. Aside from the logistics of setting it up, to me having a lot of different tees would be fairer, for all of us there is likely a point where we could shoot level par even if it was starting 3 feet from the hole. Obviously starting 3 feet away is a bit hyperbolic but you could have more starting points, and then the more skilled you get the further away you start. Could a system like this work, are there any other options like this out there?

I realise this isn't going to happen, I just think it's interesting to think and talk about.

 

[SteveJay]

I agree. I find it odd that golf seeks a system to level the playing field for everyone. Arguably it can instill strange behaviours for a sporting environment, like not wanting to improve or play to your best ability, to practice, train hard etc. All such activity in other sports that are seen as ways to better yourself and play to a higher standard. In golf it can mean you are no longer competitive, especially if you believe that WHS favours higher handicappers.

I am an average golfer, striving to get to single figures despite now being 60. Entering competitions for me is largely about scoring well and hopefully reducing my handicap, for self satisfaction. I know I will rarely have a chance to win which is a sad state of affairs in my eyes. If I was a 30+ handicapper and was winning competitions I think I would feel it was a bit of a false win knowing loads of far better golfers would beat me if not for the handicap system.

 

[hambugerpete]

Oooh a handicap thread I'm sure others sports use handicaps too.

 

[wjemather]

I realise this might sound a bit strange, but bear with me as I originally came from another sport before golf and it didn't have handicaps. I'll be honest I don't truly understand the appeal of handicaps, so I am probably in a minority, they basically track your recent form and you can "win" by performing better than you have on average recently, even if others played better than you. To me the only real reason for handicaps is so people can bet or win prizes, if it was just for fun it doesn't really matter if your mate was 10 shots better than you, and yes I am jealous that in my previous sport you could set a national record and be rewarded with £25 yet most would collect more than that for a random Saturday morning roll up.

So assuming the money isn't going away, is there a better way people of differing skill can play together without just adding or subtracting shots which is easily manipulated if one chooses it. Aside from the logistics of setting it up, to me having a lot of different tees would be fairer, for all of us there is likely a point where we could shoot level par even if it was starting 3 feet from the hole. Obviously starting 3 feet away is a bit hyperbolic but you could have more starting points, and then the more skilled you get the further away you start. Could a system like this work, are there any other options like this out there?

I realise this isn't going to happen, I just think it's interesting to think and talk about.

In golf, for a 36 handicapper to compete with a scratch golfer using a distance based handicap system, they would pretty much have to start on (or very close to) the green on every hole, and then they are not really playing the same sport.

Out of interest, what was your previous sport?

 

[Imurg]

Distance and Handicap don't always correlate.
I played with a guy the other day who out drove me by 50 yards but his handicap is 3 times higher than mine.
Handicap comps are exactly that..they reward the player who plays best relative to their handicap
The other way is to play Scratch comps - and unless you're very very good you'll have even less chance of winning.

Take it for what it is...a game of golf that you might get a small prize for...and you might get a cut
It's really not life changing and the sooner everybody figures this out the more fun they'll have....

 

[HPIMG]

I don’t get handicaps in my mind it’s just to make bad golfers feel competitive. Do it like the pros and do away with handicaps. They will be pros that have zero chance of wining.
If I played the best pro and he gave me 10 shots and I win by 1. I don’t care what anyone says i didn’t beat him im absolutely terrible compared to a pro but there would be amateurs out there that would think ive beat a pro today lol

 

[Neilds]

I don’t get handicaps in my mind it’s just to make bad golfers feel competitive. Do it like the pros and do away with handicaps. They will be pros that have zero chance of wining.
If I played the best pro and he gave me 10 shots and I win by 1. I don’t care what anyone says i didn’t beat him im absolutely terrible compared to a pro but there would be amateurs out there that would think ive beat a pro today lol

But I will put them in my signature block

 

[HPIMG]

But I will put them in my signature block

That’s there solely to show a few people who laughed when I said I was going to get to scratch what I first took up golf a few years ago. When I get to scratch this year I will call them out.
I hate handicaps if there was a vote tomorrow to scrap them I would be voting for it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That’s there solely to show a few people who laughed when I said I was going to get to scratch what I first took up golf a few years ago. When I get to scratch this year I will call them out.
I hate handicaps if there was a vote tomorrow to scrap them I would be voting for it.

How many competition entries would you expect to have at your club if every comp was a scratch one?

If handicaps didn't exist then club competitions would largely disappear, imo.

 

[The Squirrel]

How many competition entries would you expect to have at your club if every comp was a scratch one?

If handicaps didn't exist then club competitions would largely disappear, imo.

Plenty of sports manage without - they just segment competition. You work your way up or drop down leagues so you’re always at a level. Cricket can range from Test Match to village. My local cricket league had 9; Division 1 had a few ex pros, Div9 was retirees and people in it for the drinking .

It would be even easier for golf to do this as in a stroke play tournament, players from every division can still go round together; no need to necessarily play with your divisional rivals. No reason you can’t have 10 divisions on course at once.

Also means there’s more to play for. Even a bad round where chance of victory vanished by hole 3 remains competitively motivated - in fact becomes even more so if you’re fighting relegation!

Arguably makes tournaments more useful for handicapping purposes too (if you do want to retain them for social/fun golf) as nobody is going to ever stop trying in a comp…

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@The Squirrel I think team sports are very different to individual sports on that front.

Equally, the post I was replying to talked about no handicaps. You are talking about multiple divisions, something many clubs already have (although not as many as you suggest), and a handicap system in place still. I agree with divisions within comps, but clearly you need handicaps still for those to work.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I don’t get handicaps in my mind it’s just to make bad golfers feel competitive. Do it like the pros and do away with handicaps. They will be pros that have zero chance of wining.
If I played the best pro and he gave me 10 shots and I win by 1. I don’t care what anyone says i didn’t beat him im absolutely terrible compared to a pro but there would be amateurs out there that would think ive beat a pro today lol

Every “pro” on the circuit will have won some level of Pro event and most pro’s end up playing on the tour for their level of golf

Plenty of sports manage without - they just segment competition. You work your way up or drop down leagues so you’re always at a level. Cricket can range from Test Match to village. My local cricket league had 9; Division 1 had a few ex pros, Div9 was retirees and people in it for the drinking .

It would be even easier for golf to do this as in a stroke play tournament, players from every division can still go round together; no need to necessarily play with your divisional rivals. No reason you can’t have 10 divisions on course at once.

Also means there’s more to play for. Even a bad round where chance of victory vanished by hole 3 remains competitively motivated - in fact becomes even more so if you’re fighting relegation!

Arguably makes tournaments more useful for handicapping purposes too (if you do want to retain them for social/fun golf) as nobody is going to ever stop trying in a comp…

Other sports are segmented by ability

You will be playing in a team or a league alongside players of similar skill levels


The handicap system is there purely for “club golf” at the end of the day

It’s there it allow mates to play together etc and still have some sort of match between each other

It’s very much a social game for most


There does imo need to be more “rewards” or “prizes” towards those that actually score the best in a handicap comp

 

[The Squirrel]

@The Squirrel I think team sports are very different to individual sports on that front.

Equally, the post I was replying to talked about no handicaps. You are talking about multiple divisions, something many clubs already have (although not as many as you suggest), and a handicap system in place still. I agree with divisions within comps, but clearly you need handicaps still for those to work.

Fine. Tennis can’t be handicapped and manages just fine with divisions.
If you have enough divisions that contests are fairly even you don’t need handicapping. Divisions could be 10 or fewer people; people working their way upwards as they take up the sport and improve would give them a real sense of achievement…

 

[wjemather]

Fine. Tennis can’t be handicapped and manages just fine with divisions.
If you have enough divisions that contests are fairly even you don’t need handicapping. Divisions could be 10 or fewer people; people working their way upwards as they take up the sport and improve would give them a real sense of achievement…

Just about every sport you can think of can be handicapped, including tennis (where any difference in ability translates to starting points in each game).

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Fine. Tennis can’t be handicapped and manages just fine with divisions.
If you have enough divisions that contests are fairly even you don’t need handicapping. Divisions could be 10 or fewer people; people working their way upwards as they take up the sport and improve would give them a real sense of achievement…

Tennis you play against players of similar level - same with darts , snooker etc etc

 

[Neilds]

Fine. Tennis can’t be handicapped and manages just fine with divisions.
If you have enough divisions that contests are fairly even you don’t need handicapping. Divisions could be 10 or fewer people; people working their way upwards as they take up the sport and improve would give them a real sense of achievement…

So how would you arrange the monthly medal? Bearing in mind, players of the same standard would need to play together but wouldn’t necessarily all want to play at the same time.

 

[Crow]

The first handicaps were to allow for a competitive game between different abilities when playing matchplay.

The basic system was then improved by the Ladies Golf Union for general competition play and their method was adopted and tweaked by the sport as a whole.

It's never going to be perfect but there aren't many sports where such widely differing abilities can compete against each other and have a good, competitive game as they can in golf.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Fine. Tennis can’t be handicapped and manages just fine with divisions.
If you have enough divisions that contests are fairly even you don’t need handicapping. Divisions could be 10 or fewer people; people working their way upwards as they take up the sport and improve would give them a real sense of achievement…

I can see how that works with matchplay but for stroke play? Tennis, as the example, is played very differently to golf, most of the time, as they are playing against an opponent. Most golf is against the course, as the saying goes .

Handicaps are imperfect but do the best job possible, in a golfing situation ie amateur clubs.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Plenty of sports manage without - they just segment competition. You work your way up or drop down leagues so you’re always at a level. Cricket can range from Test Match to village. My local cricket league had 9; Division 1 had a few ex pros, Div9 was retirees and people in it for the drinking .

It would be even easier for golf to do this as in a stroke play tournament, players from every division can still go round together; no need to necessarily play with your divisional rivals. No reason you can’t have 10 divisions on course at once.

Also means there’s more to play for. Even a bad round where chance of victory vanished by hole 3 remains competitively motivated - in fact becomes even more so if you’re fighting relegation!

Arguably makes tournaments more useful for handicapping purposes too (if you do want to retain them for social/fun golf) as nobody is going to ever stop trying in a comp…

How would you decide who plays in each division?

 

[jim8flog]

I realise this might sound a bit strange, but bear with me as I originally came from another sport before golf and it didn't have handicaps. I'll be honest I don't truly understand the appeal of handicaps, so I am probably in a minority, they basically track your recent form and you can "win" by performing better than you have on average recently, even if others played better than you. To me the only real reason for handicaps is so people can bet or win prizes, if it was just for fun it doesn't really matter if your mate was 10 shots better than you, and yes I am jealous that in my previous sport you could set a national record and be rewarded with £25 yet most would collect more than that for a random Saturday morning roll up.

So assuming the money isn't going away, is there a better way people of differing skill can play together without just adding or subtracting shots which is easily manipulated if one chooses it. Aside from the logistics of setting it up, to me having a lot of different tees would be fairer, for all of us there is likely a point where we could shoot level par even if it was starting 3 feet from the hole. Obviously starting 3 feet away is a bit hyperbolic but you could have more starting points, and then the more skilled you get the further away you start. Could a system like this work, are there any other options like this out there?

I realise this isn't going to happen, I just think it's interesting to think and talk about.

We already have different tees but most players are too macho to play off the shorter distance ones.

Plus as already said there comes a point where distance makes no difference, the very players will still put it closer to a flag at 200yards against a poor player from 100 yards.

You also have to factor in enjoyment of the game, no matter how poor at the game I bet there are very few who would play a course where the flag is 100yards away from the green on every hole. We have special tees for juniors on our 9 hole course but you rarely see them being used.