Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
If horse racing and motor sport can use weight penalties to even out a field or squash use different balls, golf can happily carry on with the hcp system.
Alternative to handicaps
- Thread starter Golf is fun
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fenwayrich
Assistant Pro
There would have a method be a way of differentiating between levels of ability. Perhaps it could be called, for want of better terminology, a handicap system?
rulefan
Tour Winner
I have played both tennis and squash where handicaps were involved. The major problem in both was the fact that the player who could keep the ball in play would always win.
Golf is fun
Active member
I came from weightlifting which in theory would be ridiculously easy to handicap if you chose - just add xkg to the weaker peoples totals. The thing is this didn't happen at any given comp the winner was the person who lifted the most weight. If you were a beginner you had no hope, but you still did it because it was fun, you didn't need someone to add 150kg to your total and say you've won to enjoy it. Equally what your fellow competitors did mostly didn't impact you, you still tried to lift the most you could - strategy and mind games at the top level excepted.
If you did good at local comps you qualified to enter national ones, if you did good at those European ones etc...
Why do you need to feel falsely competitive or like you've won for golf to be enjoyable? Surely if your best round is 120 and today you shoot 110 in the medal you're happy and feel accomplished even though you came dead last? Does saying you beat someone else who shot 74 really add anything?
I like the idea of divisions, especially if it's harder to get "relegated" than "promoted". That is if you start playing badly, you have to ride it out to next season, but if you start winning everything you move up to the next division immediately.
Backache
Assistant Pro
Handicapping in golf was originally to facilitate betting and was generally used in match play which was how golf was played.
In UK and Ireland the system was adapted to facilitate stroke play which worked less well and required a fiddle because the scoring variance is far greater in poorer golfers than good golfers, but the system settled pretty well so that there was a slight advantage to good golfers in a large field.
WHS removed the advantage and gave it to poor golfers, so now there is an advantage in being a bad golfer, which many rational people would regard as being antithetical to sport.
However it does give power to those authorised to provide software etc to calculate these things so we are not allowed to say anything against it or use a rational system as you are then denounced for heresy.
In UK and Ireland the system was adapted to facilitate stroke play which worked less well and required a fiddle because the scoring variance is far greater in poorer golfers than good golfers, but the system settled pretty well so that there was a slight advantage to good golfers in a large field.
WHS removed the advantage and gave it to poor golfers, so now there is an advantage in being a bad golfer, which many rational people would regard as being antithetical to sport.
However it does give power to those authorised to provide software etc to calculate these things so we are not allowed to say anything against it or use a rational system as you are then denounced for heresy.
2blue
Journeyman Pro
Yes, I've played H/cap tennis which works up to a point..... pretty much like happens with any H/cap system. Snooker works more smoothly
Golfnut1957
Newbie
Maybe. I wonder what the OP thinks?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I've often wondered what it would be like if, instead of your handicap being say, 12 shots off your round, it was to give you 12 Mulligans instead. Would bring a strategic element as you have to choose when to use them, and also would probably favour the higher handicappers less, because a Mulligan could be used but then wasted with a second attempt that was no better than the first.
The Squirrel
Active member
Haha. Yes that would actually be quite fun and yes add strategy too. Save one for the hole with the lake in play of course, use one to get a practice read on a key putt, while 3 mulligans left on the last 2 holes means you can go all out to hit Roryesque bombs then laugh as it sails 50 yards right
.Golf is fun
Active member
This is an interesting idea. It would mean ultimately that you still had to execute with your second attempt.
It would help those erratic players who have a few disaster shots, but would probably draw complaints from those who have higher handicaps due to distance limitations.
Golf is fun
Active member
Why would you need to differentiate between levels of ability with a handicap to have divisions?
You could simply have a division for every 5% of your membership, e.g if your club had 400 members each division is 20 people This number could be scaled up or down as needed. When you join as a new member you start on the middle group. At the end of each ”season" top x and bottom x people in the standings get "promoted" and "relegated". If you win x times in a "season" you get "promoted". A "season" for division purposes can be an actual golf season, or a shorter period like a month or a quarter.
There we have it golfers playing straight up in divisions without a handicap in sight. Admittedly it doesn't travel, but it would work within a club or society.
The mentality of "I've got a shot here so I'll use it" would go away.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
That would take about 15-20 years to get people in the ‘right’ division!
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I know next to nothing about weightlifting but doesn’t it have a handicapping system with the various weight divisions? Which inevitably leads to folks picking up ‘wins’ when they didn’t lift the most weight and folk winning nothing who lifted more than most of those collecting gold medals etc in lighter divisions
Using your comment for convenience, do those divisional weightlifting winners “need to feel falsely competitive or like they've won for
Golf has divisions too but being a different skill, it doesn’t need/use as many as weightlifting because it also has a shot system. So when using 3 divisions for golf we need to have a measure to see which Div each player should be in, and a system based on number of shots seems pretty apt (with ‘promotion/relegation’ between divisions already taking place)
Using say 10 golf divisions would work I think, but it’d just lead to endless prize givings and the prize value being much diluted (exactly as you mentioned happens in weightlifting) I think the sheer number of golf comps around the country doesn't lend itself to divisional handicapping system as the prime separator. Then try multiplying those divisions to include women/seniors to facilitate the mixed & team comps... nightmare number
chrisd
Major Champion
I played league and competition tennis years ago when a handicap system was introduced for a sponsored competition. So the better player would start (say) love 30 down against the weeker player. Now the players when entering the comp would declare how good they thought they were and somehow the organisers fixed a match starting score, (so as said, love 15 or 30 up or down) the result as I remember was that the better player almost always won as was said earlier " the player who could keep the ball in play always won" .
At least, in golf, my mates and I can play a game where the handicap differences are fairy representative of our abilities and then the game result becomes a case of who plays best on a given day compared to their known handicap ability. Without the handicap system the lowest handicapper almost always wins and then the game is boring.
At least, in golf, my mates and I can play a game where the handicap differences are fairy representative of our abilities and then the game result becomes a case of who plays best on a given day compared to their known handicap ability. Without the handicap system the lowest handicapper almost always wins and then the game is boring.
SteveJay
Head Pro
Agree, but as I said earlier, it gives little or no incentive for the poorer player to improve. That's the great weakness of handicapping in my opinion, unlike almost any other sport, it encourages mediocrity and the better players (especially given WHS flaws) do not win very often.
I can't think of any other sport where some players relish the fact that their handicap has gone up so they get any extra shot, making it easier for them when competing (and i use that word loosely) against a better player.
3 jabber
Well-known member
Worth trying, why not try that with your mates next time you play and report back? Certainly more interesting than a regular handicap
VVega
Assistant Pro
A gazillion of threads: “getting to scratch” would disagree.
wjemather
Well-known member
Given improvers will always hold an advantage in any handicap system, the incentive is certainly there. However, it never been a function of any handicap system, which is purely there to enable equitable competition among players of differing abilities.
Better players win at a proportional rate to their numbers - there simply aren't many of them so they don't win very often.
I think personal, sporting pride makes most people want to improve. Those that don't have that.........not a lot you can do about them.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Yeah, I was going to say something similar... This argument that it encourages or rewards mediocrity, I guess that might be true in people who have completely the wrong attitude to the game, but that's up to them. Some of us may joke about wanting a shot back here or there but ultimately we want to improve, and the handicap is a nice marker indicating that improvement. (Says me who's just gone up 0.5 overnight.)
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