G
guest100718
Guest
He signed for an incorrect score, seems a fair enough DQ to me.
Molinari DQ
- Thread starter Imurg
- Start date
He signed for an incorrect score, seems a fair enough DQ to me.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Ok. The rule being challenged is 6-6d which if breached leads to a DQ of a player and in particular that aspect of it whereby the failure to include the penalty for a breach of rule of which he was unaware. Those who think it is stupid/ridiculous/draconian etc might think of their answer to this question:
You have handed in your card with a score that is going to win a tournament. The runner up is 1 stroke behind you. There is necessarily a moment laid down at which your card is considered to be returned and cannot thereafter be altered.* At some point after that moment, it is discovered that you had breached a rule and not realised it. The penalty is 2 strokes. Would you be happy to step up and take the first prize, knowing that you had unwittingly incurred a penalty and that your score should actually have been 1 more than the guy getting second prize?
If anyone's answer to that is yes, it says something about his integrity as a sportsman. If the answer is no, then you need to have available the penalty of disqualification for submitting a wrong score.
And to anticipate anyone's saying that the player should be allowed to alter his score when the facts of the penalty have come to light, bear in mind that you could not leave such a situation open indefinitely. Imagine if just at the moment the announcement had started, "And the Champion Golfer of the Year is ......" the runner-up could butt in to say, "Hang on a minute, I've just realised I only took a 3 at the 15th, not a 4. There should be a playoff."
Last edited:
rulefan
Tour Winner
Two questions.
1) To those who believe the transportation Condition of Competition (which is a Rule by definition) is silly/wrong/unnecessary, what exactly would you propose as an alternative?
2) To those who believe the Rule penalising a player for not recording a penalty when, unbeknownst to the player, a rule has been breached by his caddy, is silly/wrong/unnecessary, what exactly would you propose as an alternative?
1) To those who believe the transportation Condition of Competition (which is a Rule by definition) is silly/wrong/unnecessary, what exactly would you propose as an alternative?
2) To those who believe the Rule penalising a player for not recording a penalty when, unbeknownst to the player, a rule has been breached by his caddy, is silly/wrong/unnecessary, what exactly would you propose as an alternative?
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
The rules of golf don't see 'fair' in the same way as you seem to be suggesting they should. They have a singular concept of equity ; which means that the same situation will result in the same options and rulings whenever, and when ever, it occurs as far as is possible. Unlike most sports golf relies on the player applying the rules not a 'referee' and a downside of this is the loss of any judgement or value calls.
Without an understanding of this, I fully accept that some of the penalties will always look at odds to the perceived benefit gained (accepting that most of the time there won't be any obvious benefit at all).
Given that anyone looking in from the outside will not have this understanding it becomes inevitable that it will look mad from the outside; as it will to some players too.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Excellent point
bobmac
Major Champion
I propose the committee ask the player if he was aware of the breach of rules by his caddie before he signed and returned his card. If the answer is no as it was in this case, It is my opinion that the committee could use their discretion an invoke 33-7/4.5 therefor reducing the DQ to the 2 shot penalty.
Others of course will disagree with me.
Tongo
Journeyman Pro
rulefan
Tour Winner
Player A hits his drive into the light rough on the left. B hits hit his shorter into trouble on the right.
A, B and his caddie go to search for B's ball. A's caddie goes to the bunker. He then, unbeknownst to A (or anyone else), removes a few leaves and twigs from the bunker without affect the lie.
On the next hole
Player A hits his drive into the light rough on the left. B hits hit his shorter into trouble on the right.
A, B and his caddie go to search for B's ball. A's caddie goes to the A's ball. He then, unbeknownst to A (or anyone else), picks it out of a divot hole and places it onto a tuft of grass.
What would you propose?
bobmac
Major Champion
I would think that the footprints in the bunker and the sand on the caddies shoes and the crowd shouting at the player would be enough to raise the players suspicions that something was afoot
(sorry).I was asked what I proposed and I gave my answer.
And now the Bahrain GP build up is on so I'm out.
Have fun
Colin L
Tour Winner
The wording of 33-7/4.5 just cannot support that. You would need something quite different.
rulefan
Tour Winner
I would think that the footprints in the bunker and the sand on the caddies shoes and the crowd shouting at the player would be enough to raise the players suspicions that something was afoot
I was asked what I proposed and I gave my answer.
And now the Bahrain GP build up is on so I'm out.
Have fun
1) The caddie didn't need to step on the sand.
2) The Rules have to be the same for competitions without spectators
That is the problem with suggesting rules should be changed. The proposers often forget all the possible circumstances that have to be considered.
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
We are moving away from the original issue a tad.
The Buggy must have already been there for the caddie to jump on, he didnt just magic one up, the player was unaware, the action did not effect his score or choice of shot in any way, it was that his clubs had a bit of help getting to the next hole, possibly a bit quicker, maybe speeding up the pace of play in the process (which cannot be a bad thing)
whichever way you look at it, it is silly to penalize a player for this. Fine the caddie,by all means but as it has had no effect or advantage to the players score, then to DQ him is unjust and unequitable in my humble opinion
People outside the game will look and ask why and will confuse many and put many off starting to play the game as they are just trying to catch you out.
Just my opinion
The Buggy must have already been there for the caddie to jump on, he didnt just magic one up, the player was unaware, the action did not effect his score or choice of shot in any way, it was that his clubs had a bit of help getting to the next hole, possibly a bit quicker, maybe speeding up the pace of play in the process (which cannot be a bad thing)
whichever way you look at it, it is silly to penalize a player for this. Fine the caddie,by all means but as it has had no effect or advantage to the players score, then to DQ him is unjust and unequitable in my humble opinion
People outside the game will look and ask why and will confuse many and put many off starting to play the game as they are just trying to catch you out.
Just my opinion
rulefan
Tour Winner
Unless someone is expecting to be on the tour from day one, the transportation CoC is completely irrelevant.
99%+ of golfers will never encounter it.
100% of pro tour players and caddies encounter the CoC every day they are on the course.
But do you really believe it will stop anyone playing or taking up the game? Are you proposing to stop playing?
Incidentally, the physical side of the game was examined many years ago during the debate surrounding whether Casey Martin should have been allowed to use a cart during tournament play. Although Martin did prevail (with significant restrictions), the debate reaffirmed that taking a cart lessened the physical effort of the game and therefore constituted an advantage, whether it was to a player or a caddy.
Of course the rules are concerned with potential advantage not advantage achieved.
Last edited:
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
No of course not, but it projects a bad image and the powers that be , need to be aware of that
I told my wife, a total non golfer and she said that it was barmy
# 3rdpartyopinions
I told my wife, a total non golfer and she said that it was barmy
# 3rdpartyopinions
rulefan
Tour Winner
Was she aware of it before you told her?
How many other 'total non golfers' do you think knew of it and even gave it a second thought?
Colin L
Tour Winner
And did you explain to her that the penalty for caddie having used the cart was only 2 strokes and was that what she thought was barmy?
Foxholer
Blackballed
I'm calling b/s on that opinion!
That's not what will put people off starting to play! The main reasons, imo, will be cost and time followed by availability/opportunity! Far too many folk seem to think that the views of those inside the game match the ones outside it!
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
Yes I explained that he didn't get disqd because his caddy had a joyride, he got dqd because he signed for a wrong score because the caddie took a joyride .
She gave up and walked away
Nuff said
Foxholer
Blackballed
Have you tried to get her to explain the Football Offside Rule? :rofl:
Or the Rugby Union Forward Pass Rule?
See I agree with Phil here. If I went to work and told my non-golfing colleagues what happened they will be amazed and all will say its a stupid rule and most would no doubt think golf is full of stupid rules (which you can argue it is). Hardly going to encourage anyone and youngsters in particular won't be enthused and just want to hit the thing and not worry about the rules
