Mel Smooth
Hacker
Just to highlight how much these guys have to lay out each week…
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Why is no one fighting for fair payment for all of the marshals?
r0wly86
Head Pro
In 2018 so pre-covid, number 200 in the world, Parker McLachlin, entered 11 tournaments, he made $174,039 in the year. 11 tournaments at $6k as above would still mean he was clearing $108k in the year. Which while is nothing compared to the guys in the top 10 is still a pretty healthy income. Bearing in mind there is a good chance he would sponsorship as well which would go some way to cover the costs of travel and accomodation etc.
On the small tours, it is very tough to make a living. Pros at my old clubs played on small European tours and they would care share and split petrol as it was cheaper that flying, rent a house usually with not enough rooms so some would be sleeping on the floor. But if you get a PGA Tour Card you should still be making money
Foxholer
Blackballed
That's why getting an appropriate sponsorship 'package' is important - at least initially. One that either covers the costs adequately or provides actual product of the sponsor - such as accommodation or travel.
The small tours arent really a career thing though, and making a living on them is not the goal. They are a learning, and filtering and proving ground, more akin to an apprentiship gateway to the real tour. Covering your expenses for a few years to see have you got what it takes to move to the big time is OK.
Foxholer
Blackballed
There would have been a few other expenses in there also - caddy likely 11k (likely more these days) + 18K winnings share for example. 200 OWGR is also quite a high ranking, though I can't say I've ever heard of him. Eduardo Molinari a fairly consistent top 25-ish in tournaments (T24 in Irish Open) is 232; brother Francisco is 179; Harrington is 194; Jamie Donaldson is 208
Ethan
Money List Winner
As you and others have endlessly repeated, the players are independent contractors, so they contracted for that arrangement of missed cut, no money. As well as caddies, the coaches, physios, golf psychologists etc etc are also independent contractors to the players. Should they all get paid by the PGA Tour too?
Interestingly, when the PGA Tour went to their all-exempt Tour a couple of decades ago, which guaranteed more starts for players finishing lower down the money list, players like Nicklaus noted that this was against the spirit of competitive sport and would lead to complacency and mediocrity. The LIV Tour seems to rejoice in encouraging both.
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AussieKB
Well-known member
So you agree they are independent contractors ?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Foxholer
Blackballed
Agreed. And in Golf's case, the professional players don't get paid until the make the cut of the main tournament - at least as far as I know. Amateurs can earn up to $1000 dollars (deemed allowable expenses) these days, but, again, I don't believe that's on offer for The Open.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I'm not sure they are ALL independent contractors...they might be simply providing an extension of their existing service, however that is set up. Physio(s), for example, could well actually be provided/made available by PGAT or Tournament, with a 'usage' fee paid by player - or as per the physio's normal practice.
There are certainly dedicated ATP/WTA physios at Wimbledon.
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Ethan
Money List Winner
Yes. Independent AND contractors. They have signed contracts with the PGA Tour, including accepting restrictions on not playing non-sanctioned events.
I am an independent contractor, and the same applies.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
In all events their are qualifying rounds where loser do not get paid.
LIV are paying 48 players and their caddies, for a max weeks of the year. PGA tour pays over 60 players for 48 weeks of the year. Plus a similar number through it's feeder tour That's without the other tours which make up the current international golf calender.
These all have to abide by commercial realities which LIV does not appear to have intention of doing.
Seems to me that LIV supporters are happy for it to break PGA and leave professional golf with just the same 48 players for 14 annual events.
Ethan
Money List Winner
I expect that golf coaches etc are paid on a retainer or hours worked basis by the player. They aren't paid by the PGA Tour. Some events have on site physios etc but they aren't part pf the travelling circus.
I don't think LIV or its supporters have any intention of looking to break the PGA, ideally they would co-exist. It is a defence, or rather attack, by the PGA against LIV that this is their angle.
There are many aspects of pro's and cons regarding LIV but to my mind, on the subject discussed most this morning, of paying ALL players, I think they have this right. If they push the PGA into all players in a tournament getting something for participating in an event then I think that is a good move for all.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I'd agree about that. But see my addition/update to the post you quoted...Tennis bodies ATP/WTA provide physios, at least at majors.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Yes, some golf events do the same. But does Wimbledon pay Novak Djokovic's travelling witch doctor or homeopath?
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Perhaps it’s the transparency of what LIV is paying all who play that irks many, whereas the 2 existing tours tend to be very cagey about the appearance money that’s paid out
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Nobody wants to see that, there are plenty that want to see the LIV series fade away though.
The PGA Tour know they are threatened by LIV, and they clearly don’t have faith in their own product to take on LIV in a commercial battleground. They have introduced sanctions and alliances now with the DPWT to try and force players to stay with them, in the face of life changing wealth on the LIV series. They could have allowed players to have exemptions, but they have chosen a more aggressive route, which has forced a chasm of support between LIV and the PGA Tour, but make no mistake, the vast majority who are enjoying watching what LIV is offering, will also enjoy watching golf on the other tours and don’t want to see any of them fail.
Unfortunately- the actions being taken by Monahan and Pelley are weakening those tours, The Scottish Open is a perfect and prime example of that - some big names banned from competing- for what? Resentment and spite…..
Foxholer
Blackballed
However, as far as I understand - and I haven't located the rules tht would confirm it - to be able to award OWGR points, a tournament must have a (halfway?) cut and be 72 holes. Those are 2 attributes LIV specifically changed to be 'different'! There may be others, such as it being an 'invitation' tour (and) with no qualifying process. I don't see that changing, so there could well be an impasse. For many - the old timers on the way down (even DJ) probably won't care.
