LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

I was going to mention the expenses, but wonder if the jeopardy of missing cut is what sets golf apart ?

I suspect not, especially for those that miss plenty. I’d imagine it’s a bit of a slog, especially outside of the PGA Tour where there will be far less money available for sponsorships etc for the lesser known players.
Scott Hend is pretty honest about the challenges if you follow him on twitter.

 

[Marshy77]

I suspect not, especially for those that miss plenty. I’d imagine it’s a bit of a slog, especially outside of the PGA Tour where there will be far less money available for sponsorships etc for the lesser known players.
Scott Hend is pretty honest about the challenges if you follow him on twitter.

Could it be that the PGA, as people on here have mentioned, are possibly in the dark ages still? (Like certain aspects of golf tbh). Maybe, LIV, rightly or wrongly and obviously with massive backing are doing parts of what the PGA should be doing and this is part of a bigger issue that players have.

In a way you can't blame average players jumping ship in order to earn money, even if they finish bottom half, by playing 54 holes and getting something rather than nothing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Plus travel, plus accommodation, plus living expenses. Perhaps no money for those missing the cut is one aspect of golf to consign to the history books? Is there another sport where some professional sports players do not get paid despite taking part?

It’s amusing when all the talk is about the players being self employed and contractors etc and being able to play on any tour they want which is the same as caddies - they are self employed , contractors etc so it’s up to them to organise their contract with the player and also to arrange their own sponsorships etc

All individual sports are the same - they get paid on their performances, and the level of payments will be depending on that performance

It’s a sport - it’s tough ,why should they get paid just for turning up ?

If a caddy is that worried they are more than welcome to go to another player ?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

So that's it then - LIV was created so that the caddies could get a decent income!

That's all the defectees needed to say "Yes I've come across just so my caddy can get a decent wage. The £100m isn't for me, but for Jimbo on the bag"!!!

 

[Foxholer]

Plus travel, plus accommodation, plus living expenses. Perhaps no money for those missing the cut is one aspect of golf to consign to the history books? Is there another sport where some professional sports players do not get paid despite taking part?

Most, at least many, will have sponsorship deals/packages that cover that sort of thing. Arranging that sort of thing is part of their agent's role. That was something I gleaned from that tennis player I 'housed', though she was one of several who chose to avoid hotels because of the 'boredom' factor. For Wimbledon, many group together and rent nearby houses for the fortnight - as Katrina did.

 

[Foxholer]

Plus travel, plus accommodation, plus living expenses. Perhaps no money for those missing the cut is one aspect of golf to consign to the history books? Is there another sport where some professional sports players do not get paid despite taking part?

First round losers in Tennis for one.

 

[evemccc]

First round losers in Tennis for one.

Nope

In the tennis majors they certainly get paid

 

[Foxholer]

It’s amusing when all the talk is about the players being self employed and contractors etc and being able to play on any tour they want which is the same as caddies - they are self employed , contractors etc so it’s up to them to organise their contract with the player and also to arrange their own sponsorships etc

All individual sports are the same - they get paid on their performances, and the level of payments will be depending on that performance

It’s a sport - it’s tough ,why should they get paid just for turning up ?

If a caddy is that worried they are more than welcome to go to another player ?

I suspect the arrangement with LIV is 'different' for a couple of reasons...the huge amount players are, supposedly, getting in each tournament. The relatively few LIV tournaments, which restricts caddying opportunities - non-LIV players will use 'their own' caddies, just as LIV ones will. But, mainly imo, to keep the 'real' arrangements of player payments confidential.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It’s amusing when all the talk is about the players being self employed and contractors etc and being able to play on any tour they want which is the same as caddies - they are self employed , contractors etc so it’s up to them to organise their contract with the player and also to arrange their own sponsorships etc

All individual sports are the same - they get paid on their performances, and the level of payments will be depending on that performance

It’s a sport - it’s tough ,why should they get paid just for turning up ?

If a caddy is that worried they are more than welcome to go to another player ?

Should the Norwich players have been paid this season?

Should the first, second, third round losers at Wimbledon be paid? Snooker world champs, darts etc

All individual sports are not the same, that is clearly not the case. You get paid MORE by doing well but you get paid something simply be taking part. After all, you are part of the entertainment whether you make the cut or not. The 70 odd players in a tournament that miss the cut are still watched to the spectators, tv coverage etc. The brutality of a golf cut.

You are so painfully blinded by your dislike of the LIV set up to actually see this aspect is a positive.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

First round losers in Tennis for one.

$53,000 to get knocked out in Wimbledon Rd 1

£20,000 to get knocked out of snooker world champs, rd 1

£7,500 to get knocked out of darts world champs, rd 1

 

[Foxholer]

Nope

In the tennis majors they certainly get paid

That's because they are not, effectively, 'first round losers'. The qualifying tournament, however....
Though there's even payment for that these days.

 

[Foxholer]

$53,000 to get knocked out in Wimbledon Rd 1

£20,000 to get knocked out of snooker world champs, rd 1

£7,500 to get knocked out of darts world champs, rd 1

See post above.

 

[HeftyHacker]

That's because they are not, effectively, 'first round losers'. The qualifying tournament, however....

The same could be argued for the golf majors (well the Open and US Open) then? Local and regional qualifiers etc.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That's because they are not, effectively, 'first round losers'. The qualifying tournament, however....

It's the first round and they lost. What else are they?

If you want to apply that to golf, tenuous at best, then people have to qualify for golf tournaments as well. It may be by ranking, it may be by being part of the tour or it may be through a qualifying event. In fact, same as with snooker, tennis, darts etc

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Should the Norwich players have been paid this season?

It’s a team sport where the players are “employed” by the team - they are not self employed - they are employed to play football

Who “employs” the golfer ?

Should the first, second, third round losers at Wimbledon be paid? Snooker world champs, darts etc

All individual sports are not the same, that is clearly not the case. You get paid MORE by doing well but you get paid something simply be taking part. After all, you are part of the entertainment whether you make the cut or not. The 70 odd players in a tournament that miss the cut are still watched to the spectators, tv coverage etc. The brutality of a golf cut.

You are so painfully blinded by your dislike of the LIV set up to actually see this aspect is a positive.

How many golfers get sponsership ? Pretty much every single one has a level of sponsorship to pay for costs - club contracts - it’s the same with caddies , they get paid by sponsors as well

Each individual sport will be paid depending on performance- tennis players need to “qualify” to reach the majors , same with snooker , darts etc - they all know the money on offer and it’s the same with the golfers - a caddy knows what he is doing , knows the funds on offer in terms of prize money but they sort their costs out - there aren’t streams of caddies lining the streets homeless - even just turning up the caddy will have compensation somewhere

The cut is brutal - welcome to competitive sport , it’s not new .

If the caddies want to be paid just for being there then get employed by the tour then and they must do what the tour wants - caddy for who the tour wants them to caddy for

It’s self employment - they have a contract with the golfer and any other sponsors - not the tour

And it’s got nothing to do with LIV tour - it’s just another part of namby pampy modern society where people expect hand outs without earning it

 

[Mel Smooth]

It’s amusing when all the talk is about the players being self employed and contractors etc and being able to play on any tour they want which is the same as caddies - they are self employed , contractors etc so it’s up to them to organise their contract with the player and also to arrange their own sponsorships etc

All individual sports are the same - they get paid on their performances, and the level of payments will be depending on that performance

It’s a sport - it’s tough ,why should they get paid just for turning up ?

If a caddy is that worried they are more than welcome to go to another player ?

They should get paid because they are part of the event, one which generates millions of dollars of revenue, they are part of the reason you can wave the OWGR flag that you seem hung up on….
You’ll quite happily stand by the 72 hole criteria for the points ranking, but the lads that get chopped after two days don’t deserve a penny for their contribution?

 

[evemccc]

Really, the inaccurate assertions - and responses from being corrected - this morning from the ‘usual suspects’ on this thread are a new low

 

[Backsticks]

The lines above about bills and expenses to pay when missing a cut and being paid nothing makes it sound like they starve and live on the street that week. So what if they have a zero income week. They are not living hand to mouth on the breadline, and the weeks they do earn it is very good. As is the case with many contractors or professionals. Many days, they are not on the clock and billing hours. Other days they are, at a rate that overall gives them their income, even if it is not as smooth an income stream as other lines of work.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They should get paid because they are part of the event, one which generates millions of dollars of revenue, they are part of the reason you can wave the OWGR flag that you seem hung up on….
You’ll quite happily stand by the 72 hole criteria for the points ranking, but the lads that get chopped after two days don’t deserve a penny for their contribution?

It’s professional competitive sport and the golfers and caddies are fully aware of the need to perform to be able to get paid - it’s not easy but do well and they get rewarded , don’t do well and they need to work harder to get the rewards. It’s not a “contribution” sport - it’s competitive and tough

 

[Foxholer]

They should get paid because they are part of the event, one which generates millions of dollars of revenue, they are part of the reason you can wave the OWGR flag that you seem hung up on….
You’ll quite happily stand by the 72 hole criteria for the points ranking, but the lads that get chopped after two days don’t deserve a penny for their contribution?

They do! Standard deal is (or at least, was) £X + 10% of winnings. So they get the £X (or $Y) irrespective of whether player makes cut or not. Many, however are on 'retainers' from their regulars, but can work for others (helping their self-employed status) on weeks when 'their' player is resting.