LIV Golf

[Lord Tyrion]

The Masters is not really an invitational though. The Masters Committee can invite players, but other than the qualification criteria and published and I don't believe it is within their gift not to invite someone who qualifies through those routes

That might be tested next year. Who knows with Augusta, they seem to be a law unto themselves.

 

[doublebogey7]

Nobody wants to see that, there are plenty that want to see the LIV series fade away though.
The PGA Tour know they are threatened by LIV, and they clearly don’t have faith in their own product to take on LIV in a commercial battleground. They have introduced sanctions and alliances now with the DPWT to try and force players to stay with them, in the face of life changing wealth on the LIV series. They could have allowed players to have exemptions, but they have chosen a more aggressive route, which has forced a chasm of support between LIV and the PGA Tour, but make no mistake, the vast majority who are enjoying watching what LIV is offering, will also enjoy watching golf on the other tours and don’t want to see any of them fail.
Unfortunately- the actions being taken by Monahan and Pelley are weakening those tours, The Scottish Open is a perfect and prime example of that - some big names banned from competing- for what? Resentment and spite…..

PGA would not though be taking on LIV against a commercial background though, LIV's backers have got endless dosh to back up their sports washing, the PGA tour does not have that luxery.

THe PGA tour has banned players because they broke the rules which they had signed up to and to protect the organisation they are responsible for. Time may tell whether thier actions have weakened them, but more and more top players going ceertainly will and that is not in the interests of the remaining players. Remember those top players going to LIV have all said they are doing it to spend more time with their families and thus less time playering golf. Is so then banned or not the tour would have been weekened commercially and therefore there would be less money available for all.

 

[Foxholer]

They requested exemptions, which have been granted before for other players.
Those requests were denied by the PGA - knowing full well the players would play anyway. And at that point, the house of cards started to topple.
The players can break their contracts if they so choose, the players can resign from the tour if they so choose. The PGA could have kept those players on board with their tour if they had so chosen, but they didn’t, and as time passes, they will lose more players, and more investment because of their actions.

Great spin!

 

[Ethan]

The Masters is not really an invitational though. The Masters Committee can invite players, but other than the qualification criteria and published and I don't believe it is within their gift not to invite someone who qualifies through those routes

In recent years they have not been using discretionary invites. They did so in the past, for sure. IIRC, they used them for Asian players a few times.

 

[SyR]

My take on LIV so far is that it's great being able to watch the golf on YouTube rather than have to pay money to Sky and still be fed adverts constantly. Also it's a bit easier to watch the finale on Saturday night rather than Sunday night when I have to be up at 04:45 on Monday for work.

 

[GB72]

My take on LIV so far is that it's great being able to watch the golf on YouTube rather than have to pay money to Sky and still be fed adverts constantly. Also it's a bit easier to watch the finale on Saturday night rather than Sunday night when I have to be up at 04:45 on Monday for work.

I think that this may be a more common view on things, people who are not worried about all the squabbling between LIV and the Tours and are really just happy that there is some golf on a free to air medium.

 

[rksquire]

However, as far as I understand - and I haven't located the rules tht would confirm it - to be able to award OWGR points, a tournament must have a (halfway?) cut and be 72 holes. Those are 2 attributes LIV specifically changed to be 'different'! There may be others, such as it being an 'invitation' tour (and) with no qualifying process. I don't see that changing, so there could well be an impasse. For many - the old timers on the way down (even DJ) probably won't care.

I think there are exceptions for sure - WGC Matchplay and the Tournament of Champions (limited field events with non-traditional formats) both attract world ranking points I think. Also, tournaments have been shortened to 54 holes and points awarded (not 100% sure but think this happened last year, maybe a ladies event).

Have to say I watched a lot of LIVs offering on Friday night and the quality of golf was quite good - unpopular opinions aside but it was better than the Irish Open and John Deere..... however, the crowd and support at the Irish Open was sensational. I really believe the DPWT has missed opportunities in Ireland in the UK. Would be interesting to see what would happen if LIV ran a tournament at the K Club or Druids for example.

Listened to Justin Thomas & Alan Shipnuck talking about LIV on a podcast - rather interestingly the latter suggests the anti-LIV players (remainers) are upset about the financials and potentially taking money out of their pocket rather than the morality of the source of the money..... could it be that nobody, on either side of the argument, is really being particular honest? The one thing that struck me was the comment about the PGA Tour being concerned that the Saudi's wanted to 'own golf' - which made me slightly worried that the PGA Tour feel they currently own golf.

 

[fenwayrich]

I am glad you acknowledge that petty vengeance and bad faith are part of the rationale for the LIV Tour. Norman's poisonous personality will probably start to infect LIV Tour HQ soon enough too.

Thomas Boswell summed it up perfectly in his artiicle 'Norman Golfing For Greed In Plans For World Tour'. It was a piece written 28 years ago. I suspect the concept festered in Norman's mind until he found someone, anyone, to bankroll it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...ld-tour/9a1e4fbf-87b6-4944-9f00-0b9414c9a28b/

 

[Foxholer]

I think there are exceptions for sure - WGC Matchplay and the Tournament of Champions (limited field events with non-traditional formats) both attract world ranking points I think. Also, tournaments have been shortened to 54 holes and points awarded (not 100% sure but think this happened last year, maybe a ladies event).

Have to say I watched a lot of LIVs offering on Friday night and the quality of golf was quite good - unpopular opinions aside but it was better than the Irish Open and John Deere..... however, the crowd and support at the Irish Open was sensational. I really believe the DPWT has missed opportunities in Ireland in the UK. Would be interesting to see what would happen if LIV ran a tournament at the K Club or Druids for example.

Listened to Justin Thomas & Alan Shipnuck talking about LIV on a podcast - rather interestingly the latter suggests the anti-LIV players (remainers) are upset about the financials and potentially taking money out of their pocket rather than the morality of the source of the money..... could it be that nobody, on either side of the argument, is really being particular honest? The one thing that struck me was the comment about the PGA Tour being concerned that the Saudi's wanted to 'own golf' - which made me slightly worried that the PGA Tour feel they currently own golf.

I believe they also have to have been around for 1 year.
However, those 'rules' can apparently be over-ridden/ignored. I would expect tournaments that had to be shortened to 54 holes by weather, for example, would likely be allowed to award OWGR points.
However, LIV currently seems to breaks too many for me to be successful - even without the 2 main tours with reps on the approving being against it.

 

[Ethan]

I really believe the DPWT has missed opportunities in Ireland in the UK. Would be interesting to see what would happen if LIV ran a tournament at the K Club or Druids for example.

Years ago there used to be a larger number of events in the UK. Look at the 1980 European Tour, outside the majors, there were 22 events, and of those 14 were in The UK (including one in the Channel Islands) or Ireland. However, the purses were mostly in the mid 10s of thousand quid range. The same year, The PGA Tour had hardly any events with less than 250k dollars (2.4 US$ = £1 in those days), apart from opposite field events the same week as majors and a few late season events.

 

[Foxholer]

Thomas Boswell summed it up perfectly in his artiicle 'Norman Golfing For Greed In Plans For World Tour'. It was a piece written 28 years ago. I suspect the concept festered in Norman's mind until he found someone, anyone, to bankroll it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...ld-tour/9a1e4fbf-87b6-4944-9f00-0b9414c9a28b/

Many thanks for that. I had the feeling Norman was involved with some sort of rebel tour many years ago - but that was way before my golfing interest became serious.

That setup/format looks extremely familiar!

 

[hovis]

Because when someone is pushing something that hard down your throat the easiest way to get some air is to push it back?

Many years ago we were looking for a new car for Mrs BiM, who was her parents’ primary form of transport at the time and the car needed to reflect their needs, including carrying a wheelchair. We had a shortlist, including the Honda Jazz. After looking at it, I asked the salesman to tell me why I should buy it. His reply was to tell me to look at the other cars on the shortlist and then he’d see me when I came back as he had the best product. And he was right, and we bought the Honda.

If Greg and the Saudis have the best product then tell me about its advantages, without resorting to dissing the alternative products; if you’re right I’ll decide for myself that it’s the right product for me, I’ll come to it of my own accord and I will then spread the word.

Try to bully me into liking it by denigrating the existing product or by telling me I’m not hip or with it for not liking the new format and you’ll get the reaction the LIV tour is currently getting.

Does anyone really think that if it’s that good we won’t work that out for ourselves without being browbeaten into it?

Who is ramming liv down your throat? Who is forcing you to into anything? I haven't seen one stroke of a liv game yet.
Liv hasn't got the best product "yet". They are a start up company.

All what is happening is different tours fighting for possition. When someone is selling you an alternative they have to "Diss" the other products. That happens every day.
You can't blame anyone for protecting what is there's and I get that.

 

[Ethan]

Thomas Boswell summed it up perfectly in his artiicle 'Norman Golfing For Greed In Plans For World Tour'. It was a piece written 28 years ago. I suspect the concept festered in Norman's mind until he found someone, anyone, to bankroll it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...ld-tour/9a1e4fbf-87b6-4944-9f00-0b9414c9a28b/

I expect the PGA Tour has also worked to protect itself from fair trade or anti-trust lawsuits since then too.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Who is ramming liv down your throat? Who is forcing you to into anything? I haven't seen one stroke of a liv game yet.
Liv hasn't got the best product "yet". They are a start up company.

All what is happening is different tours fighting for possition. When someone is selling you an alternative they have to "Diss" the other products. That happens every day.
You can't blame anyone for protecting what is there's and I get that.

If you can’t see who is trying to ram it down your throat on this thread then there is little point discussing that.

As to a good sales technique, the best salesman will tell you how good the opposition’s product is, and then subtly explain why theirs is better.

 

[hovis]

If you can’t see who is trying to ram it down your throat on this thread then there is little point discussing that.

As to a good sales technique, the best salesman will tell you how good the opposition’s product is, and then subtly explain why theirs is better.

I haven't read all the posts. Too many. Perhaps make up you mind away from the forum then. Greg isn't marching you to the tv

 

[Mel Smooth]

If you can’t see who is trying to ram it down your throat on this thread then there is little point discussing that.

As to a good sales technique, the best salesman will tell you how good the opposition’s product is, and then subtly explain why theirs is better.

Nobody is opening the thread under duress are they?Plenty of people throat ramming by the posters in support of the PGA as well….

 

[Blue in Munich]

I haven't read all the posts. Too many. Perhaps make up you mind away from the forum then. Greg isn't marching you to the tv

He’s certainly not as it’s not on TV

 

[Mel Smooth]

He’s certainly not as it’s not on TV

It was on mine…

 

[GB72]

I haven't read all the posts. Too many. Perhaps make up you mind away from the forum then. Greg isn't marching you to the tv

It is not being rammed down my throat, more that as far as my household is concerned, it is the only game in town. No Sky sports means that professional golf effectively does not exist for me save for looking at the leaderboard online for the Majors. Now the option is there to watch some golf so I will take that. If the PGA Tour or the DP Tour were on a free to air medium, that would be different, then I would need to assess the quality of the varying products and decide which to watch but as that will never happen save for maybe to the odd event to show a bit of direct competition to the LIV Tour it means that I have one golf viewing option and so arguments and comparitives are a bit of a moot point.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Nobody is opening the thread under duress are they?Plenty of people throat ramming by the posters in support of the PGA as well….

Oh dear, have I touched a nerve?

The throat ramming seems to be in one direction, the PGA support seems to provide more structured debate.

Still, you’ve succeeded in making my mind up for me; I’ll be having nothing to do with LIV if you’re representative of it. ?