Foxholer
Blackballed
No more than if they simply retired!
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
Foxholer
Blackballed
Notwithstanding your selective deletion of some of the names - including the current 1 & 2 and the lurking Kisner, Travelers doesn't seem to be one where 'top' players dominate. The 2021 results (https://www.golfchannel.com/tours/pga-tour/2021/travelers-championship) certainly indicates that. And the 2020 event, won at 20 under (by DJ, with BdC T6) had plenty (a host even) of relatively unknowns at the top.
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D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
who is this young Spanish lad ?
Is my speculation surely no different than yours ?
And how can they “find” a way to get OWGR points ? It’s either approved or not by the governing bodies and it’s going to be a very hard sell
and why are you so confident it wont be a flash in the pan ? There is every chance that it just dies of death when they see that you can’t just buy a tour and there are only so many mercenaries that can be bought
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
As has been said, unless liv suddenly create a number of invitationals the numbers are limited so the PGA Tour isn't really under threat. Diluted a bit, reduced in value a little - maybe, but the organisation is vast. PGA Tour University anyone!
The likes of Theegala & Thorbjornsen are a reminder how deep and wide the talent pool is these days.
The likes of Theegala & Thorbjornsen are a reminder how deep and wide the talent pool is these days.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
No, more so. Being still active leaves two parallel tracks, with neither being able to claim to have the worlds best golfers, and no one truly knowing which is the best. Thats a recipe for disaster for everyone.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
If the majors manage to stay independent, doesn't that strengthen their position as the showcase for the best?
Foxholer
Blackballed
Not sure why you quoted my post - it's still perfectly valid!
But your 'two parallel tracks' (are they?) is valid-ish. I don't see there being a problem with the 2 separate tours. I certainly believe I know which one, currently, has the greater quality, which is a term that has to be defined, and it ain't LIV!
Foxholer
Blackballed
The issue is 'how does a player qualify for Majors'. With no ability, currently, to allocate OWGR points and with existing Tours being on the body that allows Tours to allocate points, LIV is somewhat hamstrung in that regard.
woofers
Medal Winner
Sunday Times reporting that in the US, Matthew Wolff expected to sign and in Europe speculation around Tommy Fleetwood, (Clare Craig, wife and manager, was at Centurion) and Henrik Stenson‘s management team in talks with LIV.
Ethan
Money List Winner
All the players who signed up are either clearly on the slide (Westwood, Poulter, GMac), in a bit of a funk (DJ, Koepka, BdC), or players yet to establish themselves. Stenson is clearly on the slide, Wolff in the funk and Fleetwood possibly one or other, or both. I would wonder about the players in a funk. Most of them are young enough for a good recovery and I think if they get their games back, will start to think more about legacy again, and if entry to majors is impeded by ranking points or other obstacles, may rethink LIV.
On the broader issues, I don't get the continual need to justify the LIV Tour by criticising the financing or raising spurious claims abnout the tax status of the PGA Tour, or whether they give enough of the revenue to the players.
If anyone likes the LIV Tour and see it as a good thing, great, good for them, feel free to watch it on youtube, and enjoy it.
But don't pretend it is trying to grow the game, attract new audiences or do anything virtuous, because anyone just makes themselves look deluded by doing so. If anyone are not bothered about Saudi sport washing, that is up to them. If players want to grab more money, fine. They are going in with their eyes open, and since the PGA Tour has said they will be banned, they shouldn't be surprised or affronted when they are banned. They have not been promised entry into majors or OWGR points, so equally they can't protest if or when those organisations decide against them.
I am sure more players will go over, but I expect a few to recant. If I was the PGA Tour, I would offer a one-time return window later this season, then close the doors firmly.
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Harley-D
Member
IMHO there is no space for more golf on tv so am not sure what liv have in mind
4LEX
Well-known member
Exactly. I see some people taking shots at the number of 'unknowns' on the leaderboard at the moment. That is how the PGA operates, it creates and builds players. New talent emerging is part of the process. The total opposite to LIV which is an elite, invite only tour.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
Agree with most, but would quibble with elite. Its what they might like to have it as. But unless they get at least 40 of the current world top 50, and all of the top 10, then it wont work. At the moment it is part Champions tour, part early retirement, part injury afflicted, part long shots for the future, and real unknowns who cant make the proper tour, rather than elite. A curious melange
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Mel Smooth
Hacker
I mentioned Stenson last week - was rebuffed due to his Ryder Cup involvement. Personally, I think the old "European Tour" and associates are keeping their cards close to their chest - if Portland is regarded as a significant step forward from Centurion, then I wouldn't be surprised to see a move towards an agreement with the DP world tour and LIV. The Ryder Cup needs players from all the current tours, on both teams, and this could be a signifcant factor in finding some common ground for all the players to stay actively involved in the Ryder Cup selection.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
Ryder Cup will be collateral damage here. Its three days. Its limited to two regions. Its been a good run since 1979, but maybe its day is done.
It certainly is only a cork in the storm that is Saudi v USA.
It certainly is only a cork in the storm that is Saudi v USA.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Stenson won’t go - he is the current Ryder Cup captain and the Ryder Cup is still huge within the sport
There are no Europeans that have gone to the LIV that you would see in the next team and the US have a huge conveyor belt of talent that will replace the three they have that would prob be in the next team
The Ryder Cup will have no players from the LIV tour
There are no Europeans that have gone to the LIV that you would see in the next team and the US have a huge conveyor belt of talent that will replace the three they have that would prob be in the next team
The Ryder Cup will have no players from the LIV tour
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
As long as serious players that would otherwise probably be on the team are ineligible for it, the Ryder Cup is dead. Its credibility will be gone.
Its probably already dead, but it just doesnt know it yet.
Its probably already dead, but it just doesnt know it yet.
JonnyGutteridge
Newbie
Is Mel on the LIV payroll or something?
Beezerk
Money List Winner
The cock waving on this thread is breathtaking, keep it up guys it makes great reading ??
Is this classed as flaming or speaking the obvious ?
Is this classed as flaming or speaking the obvious ?
Mel Smooth
Hacker
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Are you aware that Liverpool Phil had already quoted the recognisable names at the top of the leaderboard (and I did quote his post when I replied to make that fairly obvious), and I was countering that with relative unknowns who were up there.
I have had a message from admins making more or less the same point - so I guess somebody may have reported my post - which is a bit of an odd thing to be reporting if that's the case?
The Travelers may not be an event where the top players dominate, but a quick look at the final standings from last year show that Ancer finished 4th, 2 shots off the lead at 1 under and Koepka was T5 at 10 under. Surely that backs up the point that I'm making about the PGA tour being weakened by the banning of LIV players?
Are you aware that Liverpool Phil had already quoted the recognisable names at the top of the leaderboard (and I did quote his post when I replied to make that fairly obvious), and I was countering that with relative unknowns who were up there.
I have had a message from admins making more or less the same point - so I guess somebody may have reported my post - which is a bit of an odd thing to be reporting if that's the case?
The Travelers may not be an event where the top players dominate, but a quick look at the final standings from last year show that Ancer finished 4th, 2 shots off the lead at 1 under and Koepka was T5 at 10 under. Surely that backs up the point that I'm making about the PGA tour being weakened by the banning of LIV players?
