LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

who is this young Spanish lad ?

His name is Eugenio Lopez Chacarra, ranked No 2 on the World mens amateur rankings.

 

[Foxholer]

...

The Travelers may not be an event where the top players dominate, but a quick look at the final standings from last year show that Ancer finished 4th, 2 shots off the lead at 1 under and Koepka was T5 at 10 under. Surely that backs up the point that I'm making about the PGA tour being weakened by the banning of LIV players?

And also mine - that it's a tournament where 'the top players' don't seem to shine!
There is no question about fields being 'weakened' - at least in the short term - by the absence/limitations of recognised high quality players.
That's part of the reason, and maybe even the major one, why The PGA Tour is keen to retain players. Banning those that 'desert' is simply a tactical business decision on how to do so, as were the changes announced for 2023. Using its power to prevent OWGR points being allocated to LIV events could well be a future one.

What did you/LIV actually expect? For them to just roll over/not 'fight' back?

 

[BubbaP]

I really enjoyed the final round at RBC, even if it was on the same week as a LIV.

I did notice that Rory earned 2 fewer ranking points than his win in 2019.

Significant, maybe not.
Coincidence, perhaps.

Personally as a spectator really enjoyed the finish at the Travelers, if you have 4 or so players close, playing good shots & making mistakes it is good entertainment for me.
Now the numbers are crunched it seems Xander earned 4 fewer ranking points than the winner did last year. It was talked about as a strong field with it being not too far from the US Open. So it does seem some ripples are being felt - even if small ones.

 

[Springveldt]

I see that Brandel Chamblee is reporting that a lot of the players aren’t actually winning any new money yet as the signing bonus is actually guaranteed earnings and any on course winnings are being subtracted from that.

So they only earn new money once they have won more than their guaranteed for the season.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I see that Brandel Chamblee is reporting that a lot of the players aren’t actually winning any new money yet as the signing bonus is actually guaranteed earnings and any on course winnings are being subtracted from that.

So they only earn new money once they have won more than their guaranteed for the season.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541146083526582278

 

[Deleted member 15344]

His name is Eugenio Lopez Chacarra, ranked No 2 on the World mens amateur rankings.

Who ?‍

Looking through his pro starts so far he isn’t exactly what you would call the up and coming stars , as opposed to the young am who just played 4 rounds in the 60’s in the Travellers


The Spanish lad has just been offered £15-20mil to play - it’s no surprise he will move when the chances of him earning that money are very small.

Will he get binned out quickly in the same way as Ogletree ?

 

[Foxholer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541146083526582278

So definitely (just) an exhibition series!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Who ?‍

Looking through his pro starts so far he isn’t exactly what you would call the up and coming stars , as opposed to the young am who just played 4 rounds in the 60’s in the Travellers


The Spanish lad has just been offered £15-20mil to play - it’s no surprise he will move when the chances of him earning that money are very small.

Will he get binned out quickly in the same way as Ogletree ?

Pro events different in so many ways to the amatuer world. Remember when a certain Justin Rose turned pro and missed 21 straight cuts. He didn't do too badly

 

[Bdill93]

All the players who signed up are either clearly on the slide (Westwood, Poulter, GMac), in a bit of a funk (DJ, Koepka, BdC), or players yet to establish themselves. Stenson is clearly on the slide, Wolff in the funk and Fleetwood possibly one or other, or both. I would wonder about the players in a funk. Most of them are young enough for a good recovery and I think if they get their games back, will start to think more about legacy again, and if entry to majors is impeded by ranking points or other obstacles, may rethink LIV.

On the broader issues, I don't get the continual need to justify the LIV Tour by criticising the financing or raising spurious claims abnout the tax status of the PGA Tour, or whether they give enough of the revenue to the players.

If anyone likes the LIV Tour and see it as a good thing, great, good for them, feel free to watch it on youtube, and enjoy it.

But don't pretend it is trying to grow the game, attract new audiences or do anything virtuous, because anyone just makes themselves look deluded by doing so. If anyone are not bothered about Saudi sport washing, that is up to them. If players want to grab more money, fine. They are going in with their eyes open, and since the PGA Tour has said they will be banned, they shouldn't be surprised or affronted when they are banned. They have not been promised entry into majors or OWGR points, so equally they can't protest if or when those organisations decide against them.

I am sure more players will go over, but I expect a few to recant. If I was the PGA Tour, I would offer a one-time return window later this season, then close the doors firmly.

Legacy in golf is measured by major wins. Thats why there is still a debate on Tiger v Jack is it not?

This got me thinking about Tommy Fleetwood.

Real talk - he's never quite cut the mustard on the PGA tour and has not had any tour wins.

He plays golf at this stage probably for enjoyment and for the money, it is after all his job, but also hoping to win a major. He has had a bit more success in those, finishing second twice.

If someone offers you 50 million, straight into your bank account, to play golf elsewhere (with the chance to add plenty more to it) and promise to fight the legal battle so that you can still play majors - you'd go for it right?

Be really interested to see if he does go one day!

 

[Foxholer]

Who ?‍

Looking through his pro starts so far he isn’t exactly what you would call the up and coming stars , as opposed to the young am who just played 4 rounds in the 60’s in the Travellers


The Spanish lad has just been offered £15-20mil to play - it’s no surprise he will move when the chances of him earning that money are very small.

Will he get binned out quickly in the same way as Ogletree ?

WAGR certainly can be indicative of Pro performance. BdC was ranked 3rd when he turned pro. John Rahm was 1st for 60 out of 65 weeks in 2015/16. So top guys in WAGR are definitely potential top Pros, though there are plenty that become 'journeymen' too - anyone remember Ollie Schniederjans?

 

[Springveldt]

Legacy in golf is measured by major wins. Thats why there is still a debate on Tiger v Jack is it not?

This got me thinking about Tommy Fleetwood.

Real talk - he's never quite cut the mustard on the PGA tour and has not had any tour wins.

He plays golf at this stage probably for enjoyment and for the money, it is after all his job, but also hoping to win a major. He has had a bit more success in those, finishing second twice.

If someone offers you 50 million, straight into your bank account, to play golf elsewhere (with the chance to add plenty more to it) and promise to fight the legal battle so that you can still play majors - you'd go for it right?

Be really interested to see if he does go one day!

I could see Fleetwood being interested depending on where all the events are played once it expands to 20 events. I'm pretty sure he doesn't like having to stay in the US for the PGA Tour and I think it's probably one of the reasons why he's never won there. He skipped the COVID season due to not wanting to commit to staying in the US full time.

If LIV have more events in Europe I can see him being interested.

 

[Springveldt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541146083526582278

I doubt Chamblee is outright lying even although he is a complete PGA Tour shill. Someone must have told him that. I'm sure the NLU guys have mentioned it as well, I saw a tweet from TC to Talor Gooch a few days ago basically saying the same thing, so there must at least be rumours of it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539809357151469568

 

[Foxholer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541146083526582278

Given that Collins was, for 20 years, a comedian before he fell into caddying (I played a couple of rounds with his first players FiL by chance many years ago) I'm a bit dubious about taking anything he posts as 'gospel'.
It wouldn't surprise me if that was (effectively) the way LIV's payments were made - even as real payments from a LIV pre-funded account, which would provide the documentation Collins posted he/his contact saw.

 

[Orikoru]

I do think the PGA have been a bit kneejerk and silly to ban the players who've signed up to play in the LIV. At some point they'll realise they have to make an embarrassing climbdown and allow players to flit between the tours (as they have done between PGA and the European). Otherwise their events are just going to look weaker and weaker the longer this goes on. Just looks like throwing their toys out of the pram at the moment.

 

[Foxholer]

I do think the PGA have been a bit kneejerk and silly to ban the players who've signed up to play in the LIV. At some point they'll realise they have to make an embarrassing climbdown and allow players to flit between the tours (as they have done between PGA and the European). Otherwise their events are just going to look weaker and weaker the longer this goes on. Just looks like throwing their toys out of the pram at the moment.

They'd have to limit the number of LIV tournaments players could play, otherwise The PGA Tour would simply be a feeder tour to LIV.

 

[Orikoru]

They'd have to limit the number of LIV tournaments players could play, otherwise The PGA Tour would simply be a feeder tour to LIV.

LIV doesn't have that many events as it is though do they?

 

[r0wly86]

I do think the PGA have been a bit kneejerk and silly to ban the players who've signed up to play in the LIV. At some point they'll realise they have to make an embarrassing climbdown and allow players to flit between the tours (as they have done between PGA and the European). Otherwise their events are just going to look weaker and weaker the longer this goes on. Just looks like throwing their toys out of the pram at the moment.

They are trying to kill the LIV tour off, I can't see the LIV tour making money if the players do not get ranking points/compete and win majors as the cache of their names will dwindle as new players on the PGA start to take the limelight. I know the Saudi's have deep pockets but not sure they will be happy to keep throwing money at the LIV tour for too long. So if the PGA can outlast the LIV then they will emerge much stronger

 

[Foxholer]

LIV doesn't have that many events as it is though do they?

Planning plenty more though!

 

[Reemul]

It reminds me a bit of the Darts. One means everything and the other sod all.

 

[sweaty sock]

The one that means everything was created to increase prize money for the top players. And all the players who joined it were banned by the other organisation, the one which now means sod all...

Only time will tell whether history repeats itself.