LIV Golf

[Foxholer]

In my opinion we need the tours to come together and sort something out, these CEO's of all the tours are getting paid to make tough decisions, at the moment it doesn't look like they know what to do.
In my experience also, I've worked worked for the biggest drilling company in the world and they literally just buy out competitors like they aren't even there, I'm not saying this will ever be the case here but money talks in all forms of life, it's easy to take the moral high ground from your sofa, each and every one of these golfers will have their own reasons for joining LIV, whether we agree with them or not, is it right for us to judge them from watching them on TV? Without knowing their personal circumstances?
We all want to see the best players playing week in week out and right now until the tours come together, put their EGO's aside and come up with a solution, we won't (Majors excluded).
I'm not for or against LIV, personally, I enjoy watching the best players battle it out.

Not going to happen this year and unlikely next year either. The dropping of OWGR results (rating is average of points/tournament last 2 years) will start to really bite for some then (particularly aging players, such as DJ, whose best results were over a year ago and already seems to have been affected - down from 3 at end of 2021 to 16 now). So existing tours will acquire a 'weapon'. LIV participation announcements will subside and with only a limited number of events, public interest will reduce. Norman will really have to get creative to maintain awareness, but that's what PR folk are, supposedly, great at!

 

[BrianM]

Not going to happen this year and unlikely next year either. The dropping of OWGR results (rating is average of points/tournament last 2 years) will start to really bite for some then (particularly aging players, such as DJ, whose best results were over a year ago and already seems to have been affected - down from 3 at end of 2021 to 16 now). So existing tours will acquire a 'weapon'. LIV participation announcements will subside and with only a limited number of events, public interest will reduce. Norman will really have to get creative to maintain awareness, but that's what PR folk are, supposedly, great at!

They have to keep it interesting for sure, I just think there is a chance to do something here to enhance the game of golf from the grass roots up world wide, maybe some young Arabic, African players get the bug and could work their way up to eventually play in big tournaments/ Majors, I know it’s highly unlikely to happen but there might just be an opportunity to get something positive out of all this instead of the amount of negativity.

 

[Foxholer]

They have to keep it interesting for sure, I just think there is a chance to do something here to enhance the game of golf from the grass roots up world wide, maybe some young Arabic, African players get the bug and could work their way up to eventually play in big tournaments/ Majors, I know it’s highly unlikely to happen but there might just be an opportunity to get something positive out of all this instead of the amount of negativity.

Nice goal; highly unlikely to get anywhere near success imo. There have been opportunities to do something along those lines in Africa for many years, but nothing has come anywhere near fruition.

 

[Foxholer]

Just opened this doc from one of the GolfWRX emails...Apparently not all rosy in Pumpkin Ridge/Portland.
https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/i...rst-stop-us-many-local-officials-oppose-event

 

[AussieKB]

The obvious reply would be 'Who?'. Or even 'Who cares?'!
Chacarra might have potential, but with OWGRs of 77 and 119 resp, Wolff and Ortiz continue the trend of LIV being a 'tour' for pension-funding has-beens/never weres!
Interesting that neither Pros were on your list of 'what abouts' at Travellers as there was certainly at least 1 player on that list above Wolff. And most (maybe even all?) were above Ortiz who MC-ed!
Advance knowledge perhaps? Surely not!

Who cares ?

YOU must because you are on here posting everyday multiple times.

 

[AussieKB]

I think one can only be in favour of this thing if you are, yes, on the LIV payroll, an internet troll, or simply a contrarian with an axe to grind against the establishment. Any establishment.

It is simply impossible to otherwise claim that the Saudi golf war has anything positive to contribute to the golfing world.

I am in favor of anything new that will bring Pro golf to the rest of the world, as the US is not the World even though they think they are.

 

[Backsticks]

I am in favor of anything new that will bring Pro golf to the rest of the world, as the US is not the World even though they think they are.

The rest of the world already has pro golf tournaments as such. Do you mean more tourneys involving a majority of the worlds best 50 ? If so, why is that a good thing ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Not going to happen this year and unlikely next year either. The dropping of OWGR results (rating is average of points/tournament last 2 years) will start to really bite for some then (particularly aging players, such as DJ, whose best results were over a year ago and already seems to have been affected - down from 3 at end of 2021 to 16 now). So existing tours will acquire a 'weapon'. LIV participation announcements will subside and with only a limited number of events, public interest will reduce. Norman will really have to get creative to maintain awareness, but that's what PR folk are, supposedly, great at!

Pretty sure nearly all the players in LIV would still like to compete in The Majors where possible. The only events they are unable to play in are PGA Tour / co sanctioned events -that's all we know as fact right now.

So, best case scenario for these players is that the DP world tour accept them into their own events - nothing the PGA Tour can do about that other than ask the DPWT to help them - and no doubt deals are being discussed to try and make that happen, but the truth is, it's not in the best interests of the DPWT to ban an increasingly strong field that have switched to LIV

Worst case scenario, all the tours ban them except the Asian Tour, so the players go and play on the Asian Tour - their current OWGR rankings will help to increase the tournament rankings and in turn allow them to collect more points.

Not one player is in a situation where it's impossible for them to earn OWGR points.

 

[Backsticks]

But not enough points. They will all drop like stones in the rankings even if playing Asian tour and getting points from it.

Allowing Saudi tour players into the DP would be the end of the PGA Tour as we know it. Convincing DP to ban them is the real existential point for the PGAT. If they are were let play, then the flood gates will open, and the PGAT will be left with only Tiger. Even Rory would be forgiven for turning 180 at that stage. A united, revamped PGAT+WPWT must be what both are working on behind the scenes. Not banning Saudis is also the DPs trump card, so they will not come out on that until they have a deal with the PGAT done, as it is their leverage.

 

[Mel Smooth]

But not enough points. They will all drop like stones in the rankings even if playing Asian tour and getting points from it.

Allowing Saudi tour players into the DP would be the end of the PGA Tour as we know it. Convincing DP to ban them is the real existential point for the PGAT. If they are were let play, then the flood gates will open, and the PGAT will be left with only Tiger. Even Rory would be forgiven for turning 180 at that stage. A united, revamped PGAT+WPWT must be what both are working on behind the scenes. Not banning Saudis is also the DPs trump card, so they will not come out on that until they have a deal with the PGAT done, as it is their leverage.

Of course they will if they are succesful, and their current points rankings add to the tournament rankings on the Asian Tour.

If you are telling me OWGR points are worthless on tours outside of the PGA and DPWT, then they are not fit for purpose, are they? The tournaments are worth less in term of OWGR points, but they still should, and will result in golfers who are playing well being given the opportunities to play in bigger events.

Don't forget, the DPWT already has a strong involvement in the arabian states around Saudi, there will be a lot of very wealthy people trying to build the game in that part of the world. The idea that the DPWT is going to distance itself from the region is a little shortsighted I think.

 

[Backsticks]

DP is certainly not going to distance itself from the middle East. Just the Saudi tour.

Yes. Owgr points will be minimal unless more jump from the PGA. Names from the past, will not bring field quality, and so points available will be a downward spiral, as those on the DP and PGA increase as a result. It will open quite a gulf. And LIV/Asian players will plummet.
But I would guess the PGA is negotiating a close off of that route as well. They will try everything to ensure the Saudi tour is a closed bubble of meaninglessness.

 

[Mel Smooth]

DP is certainly not going to distance itself from the middle East. Just the Saudi tour.

Yes. Owgr points will be minimal unless more jump from the PGA. Names from the past, will not bring field quality, and so points available will be a downward spiral, as those on the DP and PGA increase as a result. It will open quite a gulf. And LIV/Asian players will plummet.
But I would guess the PGA is negotiating a close off of that route as well. They will try everything to ensure the Saudi tour is a closed bubble of meaninglessness.

Sorry, that won't happen. The PGA Tour is a single entity in World Golf, they've managed to obtain status as number 1 through big purses, but they do not control world golf. Monahon can't just dictate to The Majors, and all the other tours what he wants to happen for the benefit of his own organisation.

 

[Backsticks]

Sorry, that won't happen. The PGA Tour is a single entity in World Golf, they've managed to obtain status as number 1 through big purses, but they do not control world golf. Monahon can't just dictate to The Majors, and all the other tours what he wants to happen for the benefit of his own organisation.

I didnt say he would. Where is that line cming from ?

The majors will do their own thing. Monahon can dictate to nobody. But he can, and its his job, to do strategic business deals with other tours if it is in the interest of the PGA Tour. And kettling the Saudis into a non event sideshow is how he can contain them.

 

[BubbaP]

DP is certainly not going to distance itself from the middle East. Just the Saudi tour.

Yes. Owgr points will be minimal unless more jump from the PGA. Names from the past, will not bring field quality, and so points available will be a downward spiral, as those on the DP and PGA increase as a result. It will open quite a gulf. And LIV/Asian players will plummet.
But I would guess the PGA is negotiating a close off of that route as well. They will try everything to ensure the Saudi tour is a closed bubble of meaninglessness.

I really wouldn't be surprised to see some 'unofficial' rankings popping up soon. Either from a nerdy youtuber, or perhaps 'encouraged' by liv. The current process is reasonably well documented so wouldn't be that hard (although apparently changing later this year). Expect the media would lap a rival set of rankings as they love that sort of thing.

 

[Backsticks]

Such will not be possible if the two camps only meet 4 times a year. It can only be two rankings then, and so there isnt a definable 'best'. At the moment the OWGR wins hands down. Only if half or so of the current world top 30 jumping to Saudi Tour would give that currency. But only in the short term. Once things settle, we would have two world ranks. Which means no world rankings.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I didnt say he would. Where is that line cming from ?

The majors will do their own thing. Monahon can dictate to nobody. But he can, and its his job, to do strategic business deals with other tours if it is in the interest of the PGA Tour. And kettling the Saudis into a non event sideshow is how he can contain them.

You're forgetting one significant factor, he doesn't have the finances to compete with the Saudis, what is he going to use to convince the tours and the majors to vote with him - if you run a tour, or a major, then you want as many big names in the field as possible - hence the reason everybody goes nuts when Tiger rocks up somehwere, even though he's not likely to win anything.

The John Deere classic this weekend, with all due respect, will not compete with Portland either on player ability, or player notability - it's a huge weekend for American golf fans, with the PGA event taking a definite 3rd place behind the Irish Open and The LIV series, and there's a strong possibilty that LIV will win a considerable number of people over - given the viewing times and the accesibility on You Tube.

 

[Barking_Mad]

?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541638016841695232

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You're forgetting one significant factor, he doesn't have the finances to compete with the Saudis, what is he going to use to convince the tours and the majors to vote with him - if you run a tour, or a major, then you want as many big names in the field as possible - hence the reason everybody goes nuts when Tiger rocks up somehwere, even though he's not likely to win anything.

The John Deere classic this weekend, with all due respect, will not compete with Portland either on player ability, or player notability - it's a huge weekend for American golf fans, with the PGA event taking a definite 3rd place behind the Irish Open and The LIV series, and there's a strong possibilty that LIV will win a considerable number of people over - given the viewing times and the accesibility on You Tube.

Do you really think the Saudi Tour can pay its way into the majors ?

They will not be swayed by any blood money at all - their entry process will be the same as it always is - previous winners , world ranking points or via qualifying process

If the likes of DJ or BDC don’t make a major they won’t do anything and the major will go ahead without any issues

what exactly do you think they will do any differently to win over people this weekend ? Do you really think the people in the US are feeling any differently about it all ? These people will watch the event on the Golf Channel or CBS and that will be the John Deere during the prime time viewing.

The locals don’t even want the event

 

[Mel Smooth]

Do you really think the Saudi Tour can pay its way into the majors ?

They will not be swayed by any blood money at all - their entry process will be the same as it always is - previous winners , world ranking points or via qualifying process

If the likes of DJ or BDC don’t make a major they won’t do anything and the major will go ahead without any issues

what exactly do you think they will do any differently to win over people this weekend ? Do you really think the people in the US are feeling any differently about it all ? These people will watch the event on the Golf Channel or CBS and that will be the John Deere during the prime time viewing.

The locals don’t even want the event

Your local to Centurion and you didn't want the event either, so what? It was still popular to those that went, and those that watched further afield.

 

[BiMGuy]

How much will the 54 be giving to local charities this week?

The JD Classic might not have the strongest field of the season, but it generates one of the highest amounts of money for local charities.