LIV Golf

[Deleted member 15344]

Your local to Centurion and you didn't want the event either, so what? It was still popular to those that went, and those that watched further afield.

Fair play to you - you are very much concrete down in the ground and there is no give

You have this completely fantasy land about Saudi Tour being the saviour of golf without looking at the real world

There will always be golfers and clubs that will take blood money because greed will always override everything else for some

But it’s going to be an exhibition tour for players on the downward spiral and a platform for people to make a quick load of money. It’s not going to take the place of the PGA tour or the ET and there will always be the four events that will trump it all -well 5 if you include the Ryder Cup

 

[AussieKB]

The rest of the world already has pro golf tournaments as such. Do you mean more tourneys involving a majority of the worlds best 50 ? If so, why is that a good thing ?

Yes top 100 players playing outside of the US

 

[woofers]

Well done to the Saudis for roping in Ortiz and Chacarra at short notice. Who did they discard from the last exhibition tournament ?

Oliver Bekker, Kevin Yaun, Pablo Larrazabel, JC Ritchie, Viraj Madappa, David Puig, Oliver Fisher, Andy Ogletree and Ratchanon Chantananuwat.

 

[sweaty sock]

Seems the argument is disintegrating in here as everyone gets entrenched.

As i see it, currently coming up to the 2nd event.

LIV have a strong field, arguably as strong as a bog standard pga even. No where near as strong as a premier event. But probably strong enough to deserve OWGR points. The format is different, as is the coverage, but I dont think so different as to be notable to normal golf fans. Its not 20-20 vs test cricket. There's infact probably as much difference in style between a euro tour event and a pga event, as there is between pga tour and LIV.

PGA have entrenched their position. Seem to have garned the support of most the best players and those in their prime. Theyve run an incredibly effective smear campaign and continue to do so. Their position with the majors, owgr, the players support and the supporting structure of minor tours makes them, by far, the premier golf tour.

The long term position is very unclear to me. It depends hugely on the position of the Majors, the owgr, and the continued funding of premier players. It also depends on the intensity of conflict between the tours.

I think that currently, its impossible for LIV to become the premier route for talented golfers. And Im not really sure i understand what they hope to achieve as a longterm proposition without the support of the pga.

As for the country with inequality for women, firearms on every corner, corrupt leadership, religions zealots in positions of power and regular persistent use of the death penalty. Well, lets not make this political...

 

[woofers]

The Times today:
A European-based golfer is appealing against his £100,000 fine and suspension from the DP World Tour as the game’s bitter power struggle continues.

The player, who appeared in the inaugural Saudi-backed LIV Golf event at Centurion Club last month, is prepared to take his case as far as it takes after receiving legal advice. So far Ian Poulter is the only player to come out publicly and say that he planned an appeal after being banned by the US-based PGA Tour.

The news comes as more LIV Golf players are set to resign from the DP World Tour, formerly the European Tour. That was the route taken by 10 of the 17 players banned by the PGA Tour after their appearance in the UK opener.

 

[Barking_Mad]

They'd have to get less points re OWGR as LIV is only playing 3 rounds and there's no cut.

 

[r0wly86]

Yes top 100 players playing outside of the US

I don't think the LIV is the way forward to get this though.

I would hope that the Euro and Asian Tours have managed to get something out of the PGA, as if they decide to let LIV player in that really scuppers the PGA's tactics.

They should be trying to get something out of following the PGA be that tournaments in their own tours that attract loads of ranking points or something bigger like moving one of the majors to a world venue

 

[Foxholer]

Pretty sure nearly all the players in LIV would still like to compete in The Majors where possible. The only events they are unable to play in are PGA Tour / co sanctioned events -that's all we know as fact right now.

So, best case scenario for these players is that the DP world tour accept them into their own events - nothing the PGA Tour can do about that other than ask the DPWT to help them - and no doubt deals are being discussed to try and make that happen, but the truth is, it's not in the best interests of the DPWT to ban an increasingly strong field that have switched to LIV

Worst case scenario, all the tours ban them except the Asian Tour, so the players go and play on the Asian Tour - their current OWGR rankings will help to increase the tournament rankings and in turn allow them to collect more points.

Not one player is in a situation where it's impossible for them to earn OWGR points.

Dream on!
DP World Tour WILL ban them - in spite of their link with UAE. Their association with The PGA Tour is much stronger.
What makes you think The Asian Tour will allow them?
Even if they do, it also makes little/no sense for LIV players to participate, as it will simply actually dilute their points, therefore accelerate their rating decline. That's because of the way the OWGR points allocation works - even with the Strokes Gained, Strength of Field factored and other variables factored in!

 

[AussieKB]

I don't think the LIV is the way forward to get this though.

I would hope that the Euro and Asian Tours have managed to get something out of the PGA, as if they decide to let LIV player in that really scuppers the PGA's tactics.

They should be trying to get something out of following the PGA be that tournaments in their own tours that attract loads of ranking points or something bigger like moving one of the majors to a world venue

The PGA moving a major out of US, more chance of seeing those pigs flying by.

If the PGA now supports the Asian tour because of this, what happens in a few years time when and if LIV folds, would they continue to support them, I don't think so.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The PGA moving a major out of US, more chance of seeing those pigs flying by.

If the PGA now supports the Asian tour because of this, what happens in a few years time when and if LIV folds, would they continue to support them, I don't think so.

It’s not up to the PGA where the majors go apart from the US PGA ?

The PGA Tour doesn’t govern any major

So which major do you think should move ?

 

[Foxholer]

...
The John Deere classic this weekend, with all due respect, will not compete with Portland either on player ability, or player notability - it's a huge weekend for American golf fans, with the PGA event taking a definite 3rd place behind the Irish Open and The LIV series, and there's a strong possibilty that LIV will win a considerable number of people over - given the viewing times and the accesibility on You Tube.

John Deere Classic is indeed one of the minor PGA Tour events. Probably why LIV chose the date for Portland! But I expect actual interest to be only slightly more, than at Centurion - US v UK time differences factored in. After all, the same (You Tube) access was available there. Until LIV gets the tournament on REAL TV, it'll continue to be restricted to we 'nerdy' viewers, however much LIV and their devotees push it!
You are right to rate The Irish Open though...Apparently potential worldwide TV audience approaching 350m on 30 global channels according to the 2021 blurb. That compare to the 800k streamings (I believe I contributed 4 or 5 of that number) who actually watched Centurion round 3, of whom 5k bothered to 'like' it.

 

[AussieKB]

It’s not up to the PGA where the majors go apart from the US PGA ?

The PGA Tour doesn’t govern any major

So which major do you think should move ?

Would love to see the Masters move, that will never happen, same place every year with a limited field is not my cup of tea, but I know many love it, plus it is not he oldest, so it would have to be the PGA which again will not happen, when has the PGA ever helped anyone but themselves.

 

[AussieKB]

John Deere Classic is indeed one of the minor PGA Tour events. Probably why LIV chose the date for Portland! But I expect actual interest to be only slightly more, than at Centurion - US v UK time differences factored in. After all, the same (You Tube) access was available there. Until LIV gets the tournament on REAL TV, it'll continue to be restricted to we 'nerdy' viewers, however much LIV and their devotees push it!

Have read a lot of good reviews by US golfers about the last event, specially the lack of ads, even they are fed up with them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would love to see the Masters move, that will never happen, same place every year with a limited field is not my cup of tea, but I know many love it, plus it is not he oldest, so it would have to be the PGA which again will not happen, when has the PGA ever helped anyone but themselves.

Are you new to golf ?‍

The USPGA is run by the PGA not the PGA Tour

The US Open is run by the USGA

The Open is run by the R&A

The Masters is run by the Masters Committee

The flagship event of the PGA tour is the Players

I

 

[r0wly86]

Would love to see the Masters move, that will never happen, same place every year with a limited field is not my cup of tea, but I know many love it, plus it is not he oldest, so it would have to be the PGA which again will not happen, when has the PGA ever helped anyone but themselves.

That was my point the DP and Asian Tours could force the PGA's hand. The PGA tactic against LIV is to restrict any golfers to solely playing on the LIV tour, not getting ranking points and in the future therefore not qualifying for majors. This can only work if all the other tours agree not to allow LIV tour players onto their respective tours.

They now have quite a bit of leverage over the PGA as they could completely mess up their fight against LIV. Moving a major was just a throw away comment, agreed unlikely to happen but the other tours could argue that the PGA major is played on courses around the world, I agree the PGA won't do it to help, but they may do it given the leverage the smaller tours have over LIV players.

Similarly they could get the PGA to agree to various events on their tours getting substantially more ranking points therefore attracting a better field.

It may not happen of course, but it seems this is the only chance the smaller tours have of getting something from the PGA.

 

[r0wly86]

Are you new to golf ?‍

The USPGA is run by the PGA not the PGA Tour

The US Open is run by the USGA

The Open is run by the R&A

The Masters is run by the Masters Committee

The flagship event of the PGA tour is the Players

I

Of course it is, brain fart time

 

[BubbaP]

Just sharing some info (partly courtesy of golf news net).

Irish Open
Purse 6 million $
6 players in top 50 rankings
Owgr strength of field 126
Owgr projected 1st place 28 points

John Deere
Purse 7.1 million $
0 players in top 50 rankings
Owgr strength of field 54
Owgr projected 1st place 24 points

As mentioned this date was likely chosen for a reason, for liv in US.
Portland
8 players in top 50 rankings

Is likely to pressure the conversation about rankings (obviously more to it than top 50 players, size of field etc.).
Wonder if the gambling industry may become involved in the rankings debate. Noticed that Portland is available to bet on.

 

[Foxholer]

Have read a lot of good reviews by US golfers about the last event, specially the lack of ads, even they are fed up with them.

Indeed. Best attribute imo!

 

[GB72]

Again, I am staying away from the funding source question and keeping it to the golf side of things. Really not sure that there is a massive difference between either side and it is almost one of those situations where you wish both sides could lose. LIV are using the only weapon that they have (money) to have a shot at being the pre-emminent golfing tour with the existing tours being feeder tours and the source of the players that they offer the big money to. The PGA is using every weapon it has (ranking points and access to the majors) to be the pre-emminent golfing tour with all other tours being feeder tours and ensuring that all of the top golfers play in their event. They are also using money as part of their arsenal to ensure that the top players do not stick around and help grow other world tours.

They are both doing all that they can to achieve global golfing domination whereas as what we need it tours working together (not in the subjogated way that tours outside of the PGA tour appear to be treasted now) to ensure that the best golfers are playing all around the world to help grow the game.

 

[AussieKB]

Are you new to golf ?‍

The USPGA is run by the PGA not the PGA Tour

The US Open is run by the USGA

The Open is run by the R&A

The Masters is run by the Masters Committee

The flagship event of the PGA tour is the Players

I

Not new by long way, wish I was a lot younger, back when the Euro Tour was stronger as the Australian Tour, and players were not all stuck in the US, always thought that 3 out of 4 Majors in one Country was too much, but that is my opinion.

I funny stat I just read :

Of the last 21 major championships, 9 have been one by current LIV players.

9..!!!

43%.