LIV Golf

[BubbaP]

Legacy in golf is measured by major wins. Thats why there is still a debate on Tiger v Jack is it not?

This got me thinking about Tommy Fleetwood.

Real talk - he's never quite cut the mustard on the PGA tour and has not had any tour wins.

He plays golf at this stage probably for enjoyment and for the money, it is after all his job, but also hoping to win a major. He has had a bit more success in those, finishing second twice.

If someone offers you 50 million, straight into your bank account, to play golf elsewhere (with the chance to add plenty more to it) and promise to fight the legal battle so that you can still play majors - you'd go for it right?

Be really interested to see if he does go one day!

Feel that the 'PGA Tour win' measure can be a little misleading. There are a number of lower key events on tour but typically those with Euro wins like Fleetwood & Fitzpatrick are picking the stronger field events to play in. Could maybe add Zalatoris also as a decent player without.

 

[BubbaP]

They are trying to kill the LIV tour off, I can't see the LIV tour making money if the players do not get ranking points/compete and win majors as the cache of their names will dwindle as new players on the PGA start to take the limelight. I know the Saudi's have deep pockets but not sure they will be happy to keep throwing money at the LIV tour for too long. So if the PGA can outlast the LIV then they will emerge much stronger

As the PGA Tour had outlined the punishments ahead, they did really have to go through with them or lose face. You may be right, although potentially tricky with the apparent funds.
Lots to play out yet I suspect, and some unknowns.
I did note that Oosthuizen & Larrazabal climbed in the rankings at the weekend ?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Accepted that Tiger is the biggest name in golf, possibly ever and certainly in the last 40 years…

So…they got Phil…You’re accepting he’s No. 2 to US fans then!? Hardly a complete has-been..?

Mickelson won a major last year. And he almost won the 2016 Open.

How’s Rory fared in the last 8 years in Majors?

From 2014

Rory

Masters = 7 top 10s (one 2nd place)
US Open = 4 top 10s
The Open = 1 win, 3 top 10s. (one 2nd place)
USPGA = 1 win, 2 top 10s.

For parity Mickelson has won 1 and had 3 second places. Missed 10 cuts.

 

[Foxholer]

[
Are you aware that Liverpool Phil had already quoted the recognisable names at the top of the leaderboard (and I did quote his post when I replied to make that fairly obvious), and I was countering that with relative unknowns who were up there.
...

As it was in the post I quoted, of course I was. But it at least it actually showed the leaders, whereas yours didn't, but still simply called it 'leaderboard'!

...
The Travelers may not be an event where the top players dominate, but a quick look at the final standings from last year show that Ancer finished 4th, 2 shots off the lead at 1 under and Koepka was T5 at 10 under. Surely that backs up the point that I'm making about the PGA tour being weakened by the banning of LIV players?

Of course it's 'weakened' by the loss of 'top' players. But by no means seriously wounded. It also provides more opportunity for up and coming players so the loss is mitigated.

Both players were around 20th when they left for LIV, but Keopka was 4th after Travellers '21 and Ancer was 20th. So 1 fading player and a relatively ho-hum one.

I admire your hopeful, speculative position, but that 2021 Travellers simply confirms (and was part of) my assertion that the leaderboard has more than the usual number of 'lower level' players at the top. Keopka was probably the highest ranked player in it.

FWIW, Rory's disasters apart, I really enjoyed this year's one. Some very interesting holes on what seems a 'distinctly different' course with treacherous greens.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Not that it was really a secret but Wolff, Ortiz and Chacarra are confirmed to fill the remaining 3 places for Portland.

https://www.livgolf.com/news/rising-star-matthew-wolff-world-no-2-amateur-eugenio-chacarra-and

 

[Ethan]

Not that it was really a secret but Wolff, Ortiz and Chacarra are confirmed to fill the remaining 3 places for Portland.

https://www.livgolf.com/news/rising-star-matthew-wolff-world-no-2-amateur-eugenio-chacarra-and

Rising start Matthew Wolff?. Is rising the right word for Wolff's direction of travel in the OWGR? End of 2021: 30th, now: 77th

Ortiz has fallen even further. End of 2021: 56th, now: 119th.

Looks like both are on the Rickie Fowler Express.

 

[Foxholer]

Not that it was really a secret but Wolff, Ortiz and Chacarra are confirmed to fill the remaining 3 places for Portland.

https://www.livgolf.com/news/rising-star-matthew-wolff-world-no-2-amateur-eugenio-chacarra-and

The obvious reply would be 'Who?'. Or even 'Who cares?'!
Chacarra might have potential, but with OWGRs of 77 and 119 resp, Wolff and Ortiz continue the trend of LIV being a 'tour' for pension-funding has-beens/never weres!
Interesting that neither Pros were on your list of 'what abouts' at Travellers as there was certainly at least 1 player on that list above Wolff. And most (maybe even all?) were above Ortiz who MC-ed!
Advance knowledge perhaps? Surely not!

 

[Backsticks]

I am sure those three are only placeholders. A decent pay day, but ready to make way for the serious players the Saudis must still aspire to attracting.
There are still a good number of non names still there to jettison though.

 

[Foxholer]

I am sure those three are only placeholders. A decent pay day, but ready to make way for the serious players the Saudis must still aspire to attracting.
There are still a good number of non names still there to jettison though.

Where do they go then (the ex PGA Tour ones)? Simply retire? The PGA Tour is unlikely to allow them back - certainly not immediately. Chacarra is likely to be a keeper.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I am sure those three are only placeholders. A decent pay day, but ready to make way for the serious players the Saudis must still aspire to attracting.
There are still a good number of non names still there to jettison though.

They are building the foundations of global support, a young Spaniard that used to practice with Seve, a Mexican... Of course they're not going to challenge for wins, but they do provide interest for golf fans in those parts of the world.

They pretty much emphasize that point in the press release....

The Portland field will showcase nine of the last 21 major winners, four former world No. 1 players and nearly half of its competitors currently ranked in the top 100. The global field represents 12 different countries and a combined 20 major titles, as well as future stars of the game who earned NCAA National Championships, US Amateur Championships and professional tour wins among their accomplishments.

The LIV Golf Invitational Portland offers opportunities for golfers from around the world including the Asian Tour, DP World Tour, PGA Tour, Sunshine Tour, PGA Tour of Australasia and Japan Golf Tour, as well as leading players from The International Series, which launched in Thailand in March, and top finishers from the LIV Golf Invitational Series. LIV Golf will continue to reward players that compete and perform well in LIV events, with a broad spectrum of exemption categories designed to ensure it delivers new opportunities for international golfers, as well as pathways for amateurs and the next generation of leading players, into elite professional golf.

 

[Backsticks]

Very much make do post hoc spin there. If they could have gotten their hands on the worlds top 50 golfers, there would be ni showcasing upcoming talent, or majors benchmarking.
Its part of what is so manufactured and showbiz, like the teams names, about this whole thing. These Saudis just seem terrible at it.

 

[Backsticks]

Fowler, Watson, Kocrak fall through ?

 

[Backsticks]

Is Mel on the LIV payroll or something?

I think one can only be in favour of this thing if you are, yes, on the LIV payroll, an internet troll, or simply a contrarian with an axe to grind against the establishment. Any establishment.

It is simply impossible to otherwise claim that the Saudi golf war has anything positive to contribute to the golfing world.

 

[Foxholer]

They are building the foundations of global support, a young Spaniard that used to practice with Seve,...

Where are you getting that info? A LIV internal memo? He certainly seems to be star bound though! He can't have done much practice with Seve though, as Seve died in 2009 and was pretty much confined for a year or more before that. Chaccara... was born in 2000.
Keita Nakajima (#1 Am) must be something really special with a 300 more point average!

 

[Foxholer]

Fowler, Watson, Kocrak fall through ?

Seems Fowler deal is not 'over the line' yet; Watson still injured and who knows what with Kocrak! Mel obviously isn't in that loop particular loop yet.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Where are you getting that info? A LIV internal memo? He certainly seems to be star bound though! He can't have done much practice with Seve though, as Seve died in 2009 and was pretty much confined for a year or more before that. Chaccara... was born in 2000.
Keita Nakajima (#1 Am) must be something really special with a 300 more point average!

Do you want me to translate it for you as well Foxtroller? ;-)

https://www.marca.com/golf/2020/06/06/5eda8af946163fd2a08b46a4.html

Eugenio, al que entrena Antonio Barquero, guarda un gran recuerdo de Severiano Ballesteros y cómo éste le influyó. Su familia paterna es de Santander, y López-Chacarra suele pasar un mes de verano en Pedreña. "Seve me ha dejado entrar en su sala de trofeos y coger la jarra de clarete, ver las chaquetas verdes e incluso jugar con él los pares 3 de Pedreña. Me decía: 'Todo lo que trabajes nunca es mucho, siempre puedes hacer más'. Y tiene razón porque en el golf se hace cierto eso de, 'cuanto más entreno más suerte tengo'. Yo tiro mucho de aquella enseñanza", dice el madrileño, que no atiende a distracciones: "Hay a quien le gusta ir a la discoteca y a mí gusta ir al campo de golf. Estos días puedo pasar 10 horas".


López-Chacarra usually spends a summer month in Pedreña. "Seve has let me enter his trophy room and pick up the jar of claret, see the green jackets and even play the Pedreña par 3s with him.

 

[Backsticks]

Well done to the Saudis for roping in Ortiz and Chacarra at short notice. Who did they discard from the last exhibition tournament ?

 

[BrianM]

I think one can only be in favour of this thing if you are, yes, on the LIV payroll, an internet troll, or simply a contrarian with an axe to grind against the establishment. Any establishment.

It is simply impossible to otherwise claim that the Saudi golf war has anything positive to contribute to the golfing world.

If you had brains you'd be dangerous.

 

[BrianM]

In my opinion we need the tours to come together and sort something out, these CEO's of all the tours are getting paid to make tough decisions, at the moment it doesn't look like they know what to do.
In my experience also, I've worked worked for the biggest drilling company in the world and they literally just buy out competitors like they aren't even there, I'm not saying this will ever be the case here but money talks in all forms of life, it's easy to take the moral high ground from your sofa, each and every one of these golfers will have their own reasons for joining LIV, whether we agree with them or not, is it right for us to judge them from watching them on TV? Without knowing their personal circumstances?
We all want to see the best players playing week in week out and right now until the tours come together, put their EGO's aside and come up with a solution, we won't (Majors excluded).
I'm not for or against LIV, personally, I enjoy watching the best players battle it out.

 

[Foxholer]

...

https://www.marca.com/golf/2020/06/06/5eda8af946163fd2a08b46a4.html

López-Chacarra usually spends a summer month in Pedreña. "Seve has let me enter his trophy room and pick up the jar of claret, see the green jackets and even play the Pedreña par 3s with him.

Thanks for the reference.
Doesn't invalidate my post though!