LIV Golf

[Ethan]

Still does not change the argument, players leaving their home tours to play on the PGA to the detriment of their fans who need to travel to the states to seem them. Plus what the PGA Tour is now and what is was then do not need to be the same thing. Plus not so sure that as many Europeans would up and move to the US if there wasn't a stack of cash to be won each week.

Simple solution, a fairer distribution of ranking points to allow all global tours to flourish and produce major competitors.

As for co-sanctioned events, guessing those are the ones that the bigger named Americans would enter anyway as Open practice so, rather than letting them play on a European Tour event, they have to have their name in the mix by co-sanctioning, by making it clear that he PGA Tour players are only there with their permission.

You are all in for supporting the PGA Tour, I get it and that is anyone's perogative. I just see them differently, rightly or wrongly, and suspect that their cordial relationship with other global tours is due to their dominant position and due to the significance of The Open in the golf calendar. Take away The Open and I could seem them quite happily restricting all member golfing activities to the US only.

The OWGR is a product of the PGA Tour, European Tour etc, and the LIV Tour has nothing to do with it. They have no right of involvement. LIV players will get OWGR points in majors or events on Tours that don't ban them.

If they want, they can create another ranking system, and it'll be just like the boxing. The number 1 player in the world will be Scottie Scheffler. Or Charl Schwartzel, depending on your point of view.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Still does not change the argument, players leaving their home tours to play on the PGA to the detriment of their fans who need to travel to the states to seem them. Plus what the PGA Tour is now and what is was then do not need to be the same thing. Plus not so sure that as many Europeans would up and move to the US if there wasn't a stack of cash to be won each week.

Home tour ?

What is a players home tour now ?

Players like Rahm when through the college system so what is his “home” tour ?

And local fans ? There is one maybe two events in England even with the ET which now goes to - Europe , Africa, Asia etc ?

Should the South Africans ignore the ET and go to the sunshine tour ? And the same for Asians etc ?

It’s not as easy as stated

And the players go to the PGA tour because of the doors it opens for their career.

How many Europeans were winning majors prior to the likes of Seve and Co going to the PGA Tour more ?

Simple solution, a fairer distribution of ranking points to allow all global tours to flourish and produce major competitors.

But it’s never as easy as that - far from it , the events are weighted a lot of times by the players playing in it

It’s a fantasy at the end of the day - the events in the US gain the players and points because they have the bigger market share when it comes to Telly revenue , sponsership etc

As for co-sanctioned events, guessing those are the ones that the bigger named Americans would enter anyway as Open practice so, rather than letting them play on a European Tour event, they have to have their name in the mix by co-sanctioning, by making it clear that he PGA Tour players are only there with their permission.

Co sanction means the players who are not members of the ET are able to enter the comp without having to ask for a release

And previously not many us players played in events on the ET but more and more are coming across for a number of them

The Scottish Open for example will prob be the biggest comp that week

You are all in for supporting the PGA Tour, I get it and that is anyone's perogative. I just see them differently, rightly or wrongly, and suspect that their cordial relationship with other global tours is due to their dominant position and due to the significance of The Open in the golf calendar. Take away The Open and I could seem them quite happily restricting all member golfing activities to the US only.

They have never stopped players playing on ET events ,or indeed any of the other established tours

 

[Swango1980]

I'm not sure if this thread is fascinating, or the exact opposite of fascinating.

I'd expect a whole bunch of new comments any time a new player signs up to LIV, or another LIV event is played. However, this thread just seems to steamroll ahead with comments, even when nothing is actually really happening. They just seem to repeat the same arguments that have been going on for weeks now on this thread.

We all know what side of the fence the most regular posters are on now. Would it not be easier to simply create a poll, stating which side you are on (or if you are split). Then, nothing else needs to be said, except when something completely new is announced on the news regarding LIV.

 

[Imurg]

I can see golf, eventually, being similar to Rugby Union and League, Darts and Boxing...broadly the same game but separate from one another.
There will be some back and forth of players but they'll be separate entities with separate Tours with the overall effect of diluting the talent pool between them which, at the end of the day, isn't good for Golf or the Golf fan...

And my final word on this, because if the truth be known I'm getting so bored with the whole mess, is..

If LIV are really out to grow the game then their product would be attractive enough for the best players to join without the use of obscene amounts of money..it isn't so they have to use obscene amounts of money to bribe the players to join...
To me, that just says everything about LIV and the people who join it.
I'm out.

 

[r0wly86]

I can see golf, eventually, being similar to Rugby Union and League, Darts and Boxing...broadly the same game but separate from one another.
There will be some back and forth of players but they'll be separate entities with separate Tours with the overall effect of diluting the talent pool between them which, at the end of the day, isn't good for Golf or the Golf fan...

And my final word on this, because if the truth be known I'm getting so bored with the whole mess, is..

If LIV are really out to grow the game then their product would be attractive enough for the best players to join without the use of obscene amounts of money..it isn't so they have to use obscene amounts of money to bribe the players to join...
To me, that just says everything about LIV and the people who join it.
I'm out.

Rugby Union and League are no where near broadly the same game. They are two completely different sports

 

[Foxholer]

Rugby Union and League are no where near broadly the same game. They are two completely different sports

The both started from a single origin.
They split because of disagreement wrt compensation for lost work time (which northern miners injured in games could not afford). RL has stayed true to their subsequent safety related rule changes. The Laws of Rugby extend to 176 pages, with most of the content, certainly recent changes, safety-related!
As a Kiwi, I'm a Rugby enthusiast, but was a decidedly mediocre player (at best!). I like the simplicity of RL, but it is a bit single-dimensional. I particularly like the fact that there is a place in a Rugby team for (almost) every body shape!

 

[r0wly86]

The both started from a single origin.
They split because of disagreement wrt compensation for lost work time (which northern miners injured in games could not afford). RL has stayed true to their subsequent safety related rule changes. The Laws of Rugby extend to 176 pages, with most of the recent changes safety-related!
As a Kiwi, I'm a Rugby enthusiast, but was a decidedly mediocre player (at best!). I like the simplicity of RL, but it is a bit single-dimensional. I particularly like the fact that there is a place in a Rugby team for (almost) every body shape!

I played for 20+ years and now coach, I am fully aware of the history, but today they have evolved into two very different games. There are still some similarities like passing the ball backwards, but it is nothing like boxing and darts having multiple governing bodies.

 

[Swango1980]

I played for 20+ years and now coach, I am fully aware of the history, but today they have evolved into two very different games. There are still some similarities like passing the ball backwards, but it is nothing like boxing and darts having multiple governing bodies.

But, maybe this is the start of something in golf, where it will change into 2 very different sports in many years time . Golf Union and Golf League. One will be the game as we know it now. Another might look very different.

 

[Foxholer]

I played for 20+ years and now coach, I am fully aware of the history, but today they have evolved into two very different games. There are still some similarities like passing the ball backwards, but it is nothing like boxing and darts having multiple governing bodies.

Except RL hasn't needed to 'evolve'! It simply immediately made the changes it deemed necessary, whereas Rugby has spent the subsequent 125+ years having to adjust the Rules to have the same effect. I prefer watching Rugby though and have some wonderful memories of some I've attended too. I've never played, nor been to a League one!

Anyway...Back to LIV!

 

[Foxholer]

But, maybe this is the start of something in golf, where it will change into 2 very different sports in many years time . Golf Union and Golf League. One will be the game as we know it now. Another might look very different.

I very much doubt it!
The game is the same. It's only the financial arrangements that differ - for the participants.

 

[r0wly86]

Except RL hasn't needed to 'evolve'! It simply immediately made the changes it deemed necessary, whereas Rugby has spent the subsequent 125+ years having to adjust the Rules to have the same effect. I prefer watching Rugby though and have some wonderful memories of some I've attended too. I've never played, nor been to a League one!

Anyway...Back to LIV!

League has changed their rules numerous times. Until 1966 teams had unlimited tackles. That is quite a major change to the modern 5 tackled law

 

[Foxholer]

Just read this partial quote from Garcia in a GolfWRX email about LIV Pumpkin Ridge...
'...Exciting news, my team is set and we'll soon be changing the logo and the name of the team so very excited to have all these things going on.'
Personally can't see anything 'exciting' there at all! Over-PR imo - nothing 'smooth' about any of it

 

[Foxholer]

League has changed their rules numerous times. Until 1966 teams had unlimited tackles. That is quite a major change to the modern 5 tackled law

Did I say League hasn't changed its rules since?! Absolutely not! Just that they immediately made the necessary changes, whereas Rugby has spent 125+ years having to adjust theirs - albeit for a better, if occasional hypocritical, game imo
FWIW. I think it was 4-tackles...now 6?
I can remember being rather bored watching (in Black and White, so that didn't help) League matches at Christchurch Showground field where two hardly identifiable teams slithered and slid all around the field with their unlimited tackles allocation until something actually happened. Rugby was much more interesting!
League, to me, is still less exciting/interesting than Rugby but has improved.

Anyway...With LIV, the only differentiation is, imo, to actully be 'different'. That hasn't been great imo. The Shotgun start is ho-hum, though fits with the '54' theme of players, holes and Tour title (probably the best 'innovtion'.

 

[GB72]

Did I say League hasn't changed its rules since?! Absolutely not! Just that they immediately made the necessary changes, whereas Rugby has spent 125+ years having to adjust theirs - albeit for a better, if occasional hypocritical, game imo
FWIW. I think it was 4-tackles...now 6?
I can remember being rather bored watching (in Black and White, so that didn't help) League matches at Christchurch Showground field where two hardly identifiable teams slithered and slid all around the field with their unlimited tackles allocation until something actually happened. Rugby was much more interesting!
League, to me, is still less exciting/interesting than Rugby but has improved.

having played Tight head prop for 30 plus years I just do not identify with league in the same way as it had no similarities to the part of the game that I was involved in (pre the days of universal forwards being all over the pitch, I turned up for scrums and lineouts and the odd bit of handbags)

 

[Springveldt]

The obvious reply would be 'Who?'. Or even 'Who cares?'!
Chacarra might have potential, but with OWGRs of 77 and 119 resp, Wolff and Ortiz continue the trend of LIV being a 'tour' for pension-funding has-beens/never weres!
Interesting that neither Pros were on your list of 'what abouts' at Travellers as there was certainly at least 1 player on that list above Wolff. And most (maybe even all?) were above Ortiz who MC-ed!
Advance knowledge perhaps? Surely not!

Would people have been saying the same about Spieth if LIV had signed him when he fell down the rankings? Wolff has a ton of talent imho, think the pressure just got to him. He's still only 23.

I don't think he's going to be as good as Spieth but I wouldn't write him off yet.

 

[Foxholer]

having played Tight head prop for 30 plus years I just do not identify with league in the same way as it had no similarities to the part of the game that I was involved in (pre the days of universal forwards being all over the pitch, I turned up for scrums and lineouts and the odd bit of handbags)

League is generally played by guys who would be 1 or 2 rows back in the scrum! Speaking of which...League scrums are laughable, but achieve the objective of getting the ball back into play.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Rugby League provided the finest moment of sports commentary the world has ever seen.....

 

[GB72]

League is generally played by guys who would be 1 or 2 rows back in the scrum! Speaking of which...League scrums are laughable, but achieve the objective of getting the ball back into play.

I know (though we did have a 7s team at uni made up of front row only). I started playing number 8, moved to second row 2 weeks later, move to front row 3 weeks after that and played there for the rest of my playing career until injury ended it.

 

[Foxholer]

Would people have been saying the same about Spieth if LIV had signed him when he fell down the rankings? Wolff has a ton of talent imho, think the pressure just got to him. He's still only 23.

I don't think he's going to be as good as Spieth but I wouldn't write him off yet.

Not particularly familiar with him/his travails. But it seems like a good place for him. Golf , more particularly Tour golf to make a living, tests more than just talent! With income 'guaranteed', there's far less pressure to perform - even with loss of some sponsorship.

 

[Foxholer]

Rugby League provided the finest moment of sports commentary the world has ever seen.....

Excellent example of 'independent commentating'!