LIV Golf

[Backsticks]

"They may not challenge anymore". That is kinda important, though, dontcha think? Fowler, Watson and Kokrak will not add any viewers to the LIV Tour events. Devastating? Laughable.

They are names though. And not complete has beens like Phil.
They are not make or break for either tour. But part of a tilting of the balance towards Saudi Arabia. The balance is still on the PGA side, but it is bleeding. Rory, Rahm, Scheffler may find they dont have a tour despite their wishes. They cannot hold back the sunami of money indefintely.
My hope is they all jump, and the sooner the better. The PGA can run a local feeder, Korn Ferry Upgrade to LIV. Like the DP World is tothe PGA today.
With enough weight, the likes of those real top 20 players can insist that the rubbish elements like shotgun and teams (is LIV still sticking with that or have they been deafened by the worldwide laughter ?) are dumped and the world is back the way we knew it ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Meanwhile the leaderboard at the Travelers is packed full of household names?

Of course they are a loss to THE PGA Tour, they might not challenge anymore, but between all the players that have left, they are well known to millions and millions of golf fans across the world. They have taken that interest and spread it to the new tour. It's going to be devastating long term to the PGA Tour.

?‍
schaffule
Cantlay
Finau
Scheffler
Kisner
Laird
Simpson

Losing players like Watson and Fowler won’t make a difference- both haven’t challenged for years and I’m guessing most don’t have a clue who Kokrak is

 

[Backsticks]

?‍
I’m guessing most don’t have a clue who Kokrak is

Sounds painful.

 

[Ethan]

They are names though. And not complete has beens like Phil.
They are not make or break for either tour. But part of a tilting of the balance towards Saudi Arabia. The balance is still on the PGA side, but it is bleeding. Rory, Rahm, Scheffler may find they dont have a tour despite their wishes. They cannot hold back the sunami of money indefintely.
My hope is they all jump, and the sooner the better. The PGA can run a local feeder, Korn Ferry Upgrade to LIV. Like the DP World is tothe PGA today.
With enough weight, the likes of those real top 20 players can insist that the rubbish elements like shotgun and teams (is LIV still sticking with that or have they been deafened by the worldwide laughter ?) are dumped and the world is back the way we knew it ?

Perhaps, although I don't think that would put the world back the way we knew it. It would put golf in the hands of Saudi.

The alternative is that some of these guys go over, realise they are being paraded around to sportwash Saudi and, to a lesser extent, Trump, the TV/online audiences aren't what they want, they realise the TikTok generation is a very fickle audience, Kevin Na or someone else nobody cares about wins a bunch of events, Phil Mick and DJ hack it around and interest falls off a cliff. The PGA Tour makes a one-time offer that players can come back to the new bigger money closer working PGA/DP World Tour, a number do and the world is back the way we knew it, except we have lost a few has beens or never were

 

[Backsticks]

if he was a “complete has been” that the public cared nothing about, why was he used for every The Match — itself a money-making exercise?

Because he was for sale, and they couldnt get Tiger. The USPGA win was a last gasp.A terrific one, and I was delighted he got it. But he is too old now - his is Champions tour material.

 

[evemccc]

They are names though. And not complete has beens like Phil.
They are not make or break for either tour. But part of a tilting of the balance towards Saudi Arabia. The balance is still on the PGA side, but it is bleeding. Rory, Rahm, Scheffler may find they dont have a tour despite their wishes. They cannot hold back the sunami of money indefintely.
My hope is they all jump, and the sooner the better. The PGA can run a local feeder, Korn Ferry Upgrade to LIV. Like the DP World is tothe PGA today.
With enough weight, the likes of those real top 20 players can insist that the rubbish elements like shotgun and teams (is LIV still sticking with that or have they been deafened by the worldwide laughter ?) are dumped and the world is back the way we knew it ?

Wow…. Not sure about that Phil comment!

The whole purpose of professional sport is to make money - for players, promoters, sponsors, media, and everyone else involved in it

Let’s not kid ourselves about this, the PGA Tour is not for ‘glory’ - the amateurs champs, college golf, the majors are different. The reason to be on the PGA Tour is to make money - and that is the reason corporations and sponsors are involved in it

Phil along with Tiger and latterly Rory, has been a huge driver of the mutual money-making of golf
He won a major 15 months ago, and was involved in every (or at least all but one) versions of The Match —- if he was a “complete has been” that the public cared nothing about, why was he used for every The Match — itself a money-making exercise?

 

[Ethan]

Pretty sure that even the biggest supporters of the status quo / PGA Tour have said on this thread that they don’t barely watch the


Wow…. Not sure about that Phil comment!

The whole purpose of professional sport is to make money - for players, promoters, sponsors, media, and everyone else involved in it

Let’s not kid ourselves about this, the PGA Tour is not for ‘glory’ - the amateurs champs, college golf, the majors are different. The reason to be on the PGA Tour is to make money - and that is the reason corporations and sponsors are involved in it

Phil along with Tiger and latterly Rory, has been a huge driver of the mutual money-making of golf
He won a major 15 months ago, and was involved in every (or at least all but one) versions of The Match —- if he was a “complete has been” that the public cared nothing about, why was he used for every The Match — itself a money-making exercise?

Nobody said the PGA Tour was all about the glory. It is clearly a commercial activity, whatever its tax exempt status. But that depends on reaching sponsors and TV audiences who can be monetised. The PGA Tour has done that very well, with fat TV contracts, sponsors, advertising and other commercial ventures.

Phil has been a driver, although that is in decline now. He also has a toxicity, which has been known by some for years but is now becoming better known and not good for the brand. He will not carry the LIV Tour for very long.

Nor will DJ (too dull and vacuous), Brooks (slightly less dull but equally vacuous) or Bryson (too unpredictable and moody). Who will be the face of the LIV Tour, then?

 

[Mel Smooth]

?‍
schaffule
Cantlay
Finau
Scheffler
Kisner
Laird
Simpson

Losing players like Watson and Fowler won’t make a difference- both haven’t challenged for years and I’m guessing most don’t have a clue who Kokrak is

Theegala
KH Lee
Thorbjornsen
Poston
Hardy
Hodges
Nesmith.

They are not household names.

You think the PGA tour are happy with that leaderboard? We'll see a winning score of 20 something under par by the end of todays round, the courses are being set up easy, just to give them something to write about in tomorrows papers.

 

[evemccc]

Because he was for sale, and they couldnt get Tiger. The USPGA win was a last gasp.A terrific one, and I was delighted he got it. But he is too old now - his is Champions tour material.

Accepted that Tiger is the biggest name in golf, possibly ever and certainly in the last 40 years…

So…they got Phil…You’re accepting he’s No. 2 to US fans then!? Hardly a complete has-been..?

Mickelson won a major last year. And he almost won the 2016 Open.

How’s Rory fared in the last 8 years in Majors?

Honestly - right now NO-ONE cares about Sam Burns…it may change in 3-5 years. I’m taking about the people who corporations use golf to sell to

If Sam Burns makes a breakthrough to general sports fans and the general public, it’ll be because of his performance in the Majors — which are not part of the PGA Tour

 

[evemccc]

And the biggest advocates of the PGA Tour on this thread have basically already said they don’t watch it very often at all anyway!!

It’s the majors and Ryder Cup that the overwhelming majority of golf fans and especially general sports fans and the public take notice of

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Theegala
KH Lee
Thorbjornsen
Poston
Hardy
Hodges
Nesmith.

They are not household names.

You think the PGA tour are happy with that leaderboard? We'll see a winning score of 20 something under par by the end of todays round, the courses are being set up easy, just to give them something to write about in tomorrows papers.

Why wouldn’t they be happy with the leaderboard ?‍

Do you expect every leaderboard to be heavily loaded at every event

do you think the event at Portland will be set up tough or will they look for birdies

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Accepted that Tiger is the biggest name in golf, possibly ever and certainly in the last 40 years…

So…they got Phil…You’re accepting he’s No. 2 to US fans then!? Hardly a complete has-been..?

Mickelson won a major last year. And he almost won the 2016 Open.

How’s Rory fared in the last 8 years in Majors?

Honestly - right now NO-ONE cares about Sam Burns…it may change in 3-5 years. I’m taking about the people who corporations use golf to sell to

If Sam Burns makes a breakthrough to general sports fans and the general public, it’ll be because of his performance in the Majors — which are not part of the PGA Tour

Rory in the last 8 years in Majors has


15 top tens

6 top 5’s

And two runners up


He will still be very relevant come every major

Micklson grabbed the win last year which was his first decent finish in 6 years plus - it was a one off and his first win anywhere for 2/3 years and since then I don’t believe he has got anywhere near - it was a swansong

Mickleson is very much a marmite person , it wasn’t that long ago he was putting Watson under the bus - his relevance is diminishing each week and the LiV tour is a pure money grab for him to pay the debts

 

[Mel Smooth]

Why wouldn’t they be happy with the leaderboard ?‍

Do you expect every leaderboard to be heavily loaded at every event

do you think the event at Portland will be set up tough or will they look for birdies

Do you think that if some of the banished players had been playing this weekend, then the leaderboard could have been more interesting?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Do you think that if some of the banished players had been playing this weekend, then the leaderboard could have been more interesting?

If those banned would have been playing in the event and if those that have been banned would have been challenging - suspect Koepka is prob the one who has won more recently - Feb 21 or maybe BDC in the Arnold Palmer - but the rest there aren’t players that you seen dominated the leaderboards each week

Any future PGA Tour event won’t be diminished by the players leaving - there will always be new players coming into replace them

The PGA Tour will be more than fine with a leaderboard that contains a mix of new blood , the current top dogs and some old stagers

 

[Mel Smooth]

If those banned would have been playing in the event and if those that have been banned would have been challenging - suspect Koepka is prob the one who has won more recently - Feb 21 or maybe BDC in the Arnold Palmer - but the rest there aren’t players that you seen dominated the leaderboards each week

Any future PGA Tour event won’t be diminished by the players leaving - there will always be new players coming into replace them

The PGA Tour will be more than fine with a leaderboard that contains a mix of new blood , the current top dogs and some old stagers

It's not just about them just challenging though is it? Rory collapsing from a good position - is news. IF BDC had been there and hit a monster drive - it's news, if Reed gains a questionable rules decision - it's news.... All these things make the product attractive to TV companies, and that is how the Tour generates it's money. Without them it will fade, yet nobody seems capable of even ackowledging that.

The LIV series have shown they are targetting the top up and coming players, to try and get them onboard instead of them going to the PGA. As time passes, and more people accept the new series, it will become easier for them to do that. As time passes, sponsors will come into the LIV series, and the funding issue will become much less of the hot potato it is right now. Monahon is trying to fight the LIV series off, his language continues to use references to emphasize that. In reality, the PGA could very well be The Black Night.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's not just about them just challenging though is it? Rory collapsing from a good position - is news. IF BDC had been there and hit a monster drive - it's news, if Reed gains a questionable rules decision - it's news.... All these things make the product attractive to TV companies, and that is how the Tour generates it's money. Without them it will fade, yet nobody seems capable of even ackowledging that.

The LIV series have shown they are targetting the top up and coming players, to try and get them onboard instead of them going to the PGA. As time passes, and more people accept the new series, it will become easier for them to do that. As time passes, sponsors will come into the LIV series, and the funding issue will become much less of the hot potato it is right now. Monahon is trying to fight the LIV series off, his language continues to use references to emphasize that. In reality, the PGA could very well be The Black Night.




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All getting a little bit ahead of yourself ?

The tour will be more than fine without BDC driving it long and Patrick Reed getting caught up in cheating rows - the last years events have shown that - there will always be someone to step into the shoes

who are these “top up and coming” golfers they are targeting?

Isn’t the whole idea of the LiV tour being shorter formats with smaller fields ?

where are all these golfers they are suppose to be getting going to play when there is limited places available ?‍

The funding issue will never go away - they will never be able to get enough sponsership etc to cover the level of appearance money they are giving to certain players let alone the huge prize funds - it’s always going to been supplemented by Saudi PIF.

And there will still be the issue of ranking points and players missing majors because of the lack of ranking points

There has been one event which I guess most have forgotten about and you’re talking all about a dramatic shift in the game.

There is just as every chance that in a years time all the players will be back as the tour flops

 

[Backsticks]

Any future PGA Tour event won’t be diminished by the players leaving - there will always be new players coming into replace them

It certainly will be diminished. The claim of presenting the worlds best will be gone. Less interest from fans, less interest from sponsors, less interest from TV.
There can only be one 'best' at the top of world sport. Both are hobbled if they diverge. Neither has credibility as the pinnacle of world golf.
One must win. Its usually the richest in this world.
Touch of Rory and Rahm trying to hold back the tide at the moment. In effect, they cannot win, once any serious element of the top of worlf golf has jumped. And it oretty close now, if not done already.

 

[Mel Smooth]

All getting a little bit ahead of yourself ?

The tour will be more than fine without BDC driving it long and Patrick Reed getting caught up in cheating rows - the last years events have shown that - there will always be someone to step into the shoes

who are these “top up and coming” golfers they are targeting?

Isn’t the whole idea of the LiV tour being shorter formats with smaller fields ?

where are all these golfers they are suppose to be getting going to play when there is limited places available ?‍

The funding issue will never go away - they will never be able to get enough sponsership etc to cover the level of appearance money they are giving to certain players let alone the huge prize funds - it’s always going to been supplemented by Saudi PIF.

And there will still be the issue of ranking points and players missing majors because of the lack of ranking points

There has been one event which I guess most have forgotten about and you’re talking all about a dramatic shift in the game.

There is just as every chance that in a years time all the players will be back as the tour flops

I admire your hopeful, speculative position Phil. I mentioned the young Spanish lad LIV have apparently signed, they will find a way to get OWGR points, at the end of the day, if you have world class golfers playing competetive golf, then why shouldn't they earn ranking points?
Your last comment shows how far off of reality you are when it comes to the LIV series, sorry mate, it's just not going to pan out as you hope it will.

 

[Backsticks]

If Saudi is persona non grata for whatever reasons at the OWGR table, then no points. Points are only as valuable as who is giving them. The 4 majors, while they dont want to jump too soon sour established tour relationships unnecessarily, fundamentally dont care who makes money out of pro golf. They just need an uncontestibly best field in the world for those 4 weekends. So they can jump, but dont need to make a move yet.

 

[Ethan]

Theegala
KH Lee
Thorbjornsen
Poston
Hardy
Hodges
Nesmith.

They are not household names.

You think the PGA tour are happy with that leaderboard? We'll see a winning score of 20 something under par by the end of todays round, the courses are being set up easy, just to give them something to write about in tomorrows papers.

Not every PGA Tour leaderboard is packed with household names like Schwartzel, du Plessis, Grace and Uihlein, to be fair. It’s a wonder BBC News didn’t break away from its usual coverage to see which of these legends would prevail.