LIV Golf

[BubbaP]

Musings:

Wonder if they have been surprised by the rejections? (i.e. money doesn't always work). If they had projections and whether they are ahead or behind.

There's plenty to be critical of with the approach and the current 'product' they've come up with. However if trying to disrupt and enter this 'marketplace' don't think I'm astute enough to propose what it should have been instead. 'Buying' DP world has been mentioned I guess, but expect with USA being such a large golf market that was part of the goal.

We've heard the money reserves are massive, and cash can 'sort' a lot of things. So wonder if ultimately it will be the punters who will influence the conclusion. Plenty of strong opions on here, and all around, but suspect it may be a year from now before that's really clear. And the world is a big place.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Buying the game.....




https://golf.com/news/ex-college-star-reveals-liv-golf-recruitment/

Looks like they've got this guy, ranked number 2 in the World Amateur standings.

https://ten-golf.com/es/grandes-cir...a-se-para-a-profesional-y-firma-con-liv-golf/

 

[Deleted member 21445]

This narrative that the PGA are the good guys and the Liv Tour are the bad guys is misleading.

Yes the origin of the money on the Liv Tour has its issues for sure but I don't hear F1 drivers, boxers, ATP tennis stars getting the same backlash as the Golfers which I don't think is fair.

The PGA Tour is driving this narrative hence why they never refer to it as the Liv Tour, they always say the Saudi Golf League which isn't its title.

The Liv Tour is just offering an alternative for these Independant contractors to consider, the players should be able to choose where they play and have that decision respected either way.
I don't think it's fair that the guys staying on the PGA Tour are the saints with halos and the Liv guys are the devil incarnate with horns coming out of their heads

The PGA Tour has all the history but it is and has been far from the perfect organisation for looking after the players(it's members) like other major USA sports organisations and it is largely this fact that we are in this situation in the 1st place.

I also have to laugh when people say there is no history on the Liv Tour ?
Think those people need to look up the definition of the word history.
The PGA Tour had no history when it 1st started and nobody right now can predict where we will be in 20 years time.
It is just possible the Centurion London that was ridiculed by many is a historic event they all want to win in 20 years because it was the 1st ever event on the Liv Tour...


This is worth a watch for a reason why players maybe are considering the Liv Tour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This narrative that the PGA are the good guys and the Liv Tour are the bad guys is misleading.

I don’t see many saying that PGA Tour is the good guys as such so not sure who is driving this narrative

Yes the origin of the money on the Liv Tour has its issues for sure but I don't hear F1 drivers, boxers, ATP tennis stars getting the same backlash as the Golfers which I don't think is fair.

It’s a golf forum so the focus will be on the golfers - have seen plenty be critical about Joshua going to Saudi -

Have Saudi Arabia created a new -F1 tour or tennis tour ?

The PGA Tour is driving this narrative hence why they never refer to it as the Liv Tour, they always say the Saudi Golf League which isn't its title.

But it’s the Saudi Golf league at the end of the day tbh - it’s fully funded by the State of Saudi Arabia

The Liv Tour is just offering an alternative for these Independant contractors to consider, the players should be able to choose where they play and have that decision respected either way.

And the tours should be able to chose who can be a member on their tour surely ?

the LIV tour is a closed shop with invites only and multi millions in appearance money

Anyone has the chance to play on the PGA Tour via qualifying

I don't think it's fair that the guys staying on the PGA Tour are the saints with halos and the Liv guys are the devil incarnate with horns coming out of their heads

Not sure about these saints and devils ?‍

But the ones staying are the ones that want to continue supporting the tour and not just going to another tour for millions

The PGA Tour has all the history but it is and has been far from the perfect organisation for looking after the players(it's members) like other major USA sports organisations and it is largely this fact that we are in this situation in the 1st place.

Again don’t think anyone has said the PGA tour is perfect - and not sure what the issue is in regards “looking after the players” ?

I also have to laugh when people say there is no history on the Liv Tour ?
Think those people need to look up the definition of the word history.
The PGA Tour had no history when it 1st started and nobody right now can predict where we will be in 20 years time.
It is just possible the Centurion London that was ridiculed by many is a historic event they all want to win in 20 years because it was the 1st ever event on the Liv Tour...


This is worth a watch for a reason why players maybe are considering the Liv Tour.

No idea what the history part is about

But for example would a golfer prefer to win the Canadian Open or the London Invitatonal

Or the Memorial or Portland Invitational

 

[Ethan]

This narrative that the PGA are the good guys and the Liv Tour are the bad guys is misleading.

Yes the origin of the money on the Liv Tour has its issues for sure but I don't hear F1 drivers, boxers, ATP tennis stars getting the same backlash as the Golfers which I don't think is fair.

The PGA Tour is driving this narrative hence why they never refer to it as the Liv Tour, they always say the Saudi Golf League which isn't its title.

The Liv Tour is just offering an alternative for these Independant contractors to consider, the players should be able to choose where they play and have that decision respected either way.
I don't think it's fair that the guys staying on the PGA Tour are the saints with halos and the Liv guys are the devil incarnate with horns coming out of their heads

The PGA Tour has all the history but it is and has been far from the perfect organisation for looking after the players(it's members) like other major USA sports organisations and it is largely this fact that we are in this situation in the 1st place.

I also have to laugh when people say there is no history on the Liv Tour ?
Think those people need to look up the definition of the word history.
The PGA Tour had no history when it 1st started and nobody right now can predict where we will be in 20 years time.
It is just possible the Centurion London that was ridiculed by many is a historic event they all want to win in 20 years because it was the 1st ever event on the Liv Tour...


This is worth a watch for a reason why players maybe are considering the Liv Tour.

Rubbish. The players on the PGA Tour signed up to the rules of the PGA Tour. They are independent contractors, noting the word contractors. That involves a contract. They are free to clear off and play where they like, but they can't bitch and moan about freedom to play. The PGA Tour has looked after players very well, with plenty of players who wouldn't be recognised if they stood next to their tour bags with their name on it making millions and NetJetting all over the country to events.

Who said the players who stay on the PGA Tour are saints with haloes?. I didn't. But you are deluded if you think that the players who joined the Saudi Golf League did so for any reason other than to get their snouts in the big money trough, and they presumably care nothing for the source of that money or the sportwashing effect. The Saudi League does have history, but it is the history of Saudi Arabia.

If you want to watch the Saudi Golf League, fine, good luck to you, but don't pretend there is anything virtuous about it, or it is righting some wrong. There really isn't.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

No idea what the history part is about

But for example would a golfer prefer to win the Canadian Open or the London Invitatonal

Or the Memorial or Portland Invitational

You need time for history to be gained is what I was saying.
The Liv Tour might be been and gone in 2-3 years, it might in time become the bigger tour if the higher % of top players move to it.

I wish both tours could come to an agreement where they coexist but that's looking less and less likely.

It's impossible to predict how this is all going to play out but it looks like it's going to get more messy from what I was told yesterday from a person in and around the players and events on a regular basis.

 

[Foxholer]

...
But for example would a golfer prefer to win the Canadian Open or the London Invitatonal

Or the Memorial or Portland Invitational

Financially, with about 3 times the reward, obviously Centurion's event. And even Portland's winning share is likely to be greater than that at The Memorial! They would be daft if they didn't! But that's not the only criteria - at least for many/most.

I don't believe any player should be criticised for their personal decision.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You need time for history to be gained is what I was saying.
The Liv Tour might be been and gone in 2-3 years, it might in time become the bigger tour if the higher % of top players move to it.

I wish both tours could come to an agreement where they coexist but that's looking less and less likely.

It's impossible to predict how this is all going to play out but it looks like it's going to get more messy from what I was told yesterday from a person in and around the players and events on a regular basis.

I don’t think there is space for both tours to co exist with players doing both - believe it’s around 14 events for the LIV tour each year plus the majors

The LIV will continue to be a “rebel” tour , it will be somewhere for those at the end of their career to go to along with those that are happy to just get some life changing money in quickly without having to go through lots of work and qualifying

It will be for people who won’t be concerned about the majors

And then the Saudi PIF will need to make a choice - continue to fund that sort of Tour or just pull it

There could have been a lot better ways for it all to work

Have a co sanctioned world tour with big events during the down time on smaller events , with good prize money etc

The minute they offered £100’s mil to multiple players just for playing in it was the straw that broke it all - it goes into sportswashing

 

[Foxholer]

... sportswashing

Isn't that equally applicable to DP World's sponsorship/naming of the European Tour?
There are plenty of Human Rights issues with UAE!

 

[Mel Smooth]

I wouldn't be surprised to see LIV planning to go to more events than 14 in the coming years, if the PGA Tour continue to block players from taking part in their events.

They scheduled this year around the main competetive fixtures in the golfing calendar in an attempt to work with the PGA, but this has been obviously rebuffed.

The advantage for LIV, is they are a global tour, so can move between hemispheres if they so wish to provide year round competetitions, it also means they can have draft players from around the world, so teams can be picked to provide "local" players the chance to play where they have the bigger followings.

They have much more scope to expand as an international entity than the PGA or any other tours for that matter.

 

[Swango1980]

I wouldn't be surprised to see LIV planning to go to more events than 14 in the coming years, if the PGA Tour continue to block players from taking part in their events.

They scheduled this year around the main competetive fixtures in the golfing calendar in an attempt to work with the PGA, but this has been obviously rebuffed.

The advantage for LIV, is they are a global tour, so can move between hemispheres if they so wish to provide year round competetitions, it also means they can have draft players from around the world, so teams can be picked to provide "local" players the chance to play where they have the bigger followings.

They have much more scope to expand as an international entity than the PGA or any other tours for that matter.

I thought the PGA Tour was played all year round? Is it not? Furthermore, they are not necessarily restricted to.being played on US soil

 

[Mel Smooth]

I thought the PGA Tour was played all year round? Is it not? Furthermore, they are not necessarily restricted to.being played on US soil

But could you see the PGA tour going to South Africa, Australia, Japan, South America maybe? Very much doubt they'd be allowed from the tours in those areas, they could do China of course, because they already run a tour there - but we shan't mention that too loudly. ;-)

 

[BrianM]

I thought the PGA Tour was played all year round? Is it not? Furthermore, they are not necessarily restricted to.being played on US soil

I don’t think this is the case anymore, having a wrap around season, I could be wrong though.

 

[Foxholer]

I wouldn't be surprised to see LIV planning to go to more events than 14 in the coming years, if the PGA Tour continue to block players from taking part in their events.

They scheduled this year around the main competetive fixtures in the golfing calendar in an attempt to work with the PGA, but this has been obviously rebuffed.

The advantage for LIV, is they are a global tour, so can move between hemispheres if they so wish to provide year round competetitions, it also means they can have draft players from around the world, so teams can be picked to provide "local" players the chance to play where they have the bigger followings.

They have much more scope to expand as an international entity than the PGA or any other tours for that matter.

So you are ignoring existing PGA Tour Canada, PGA Tour Latinoamerica, Korn Ferry Tour (mostly in US though) and PGA Tour China! All are PGA Tour entities.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I thought the PGA Tour was played all year round? Is it not? Furthermore, they are not necessarily restricted to.being played on US soil

The Tour Championships is in August and their first event was in September 2021 - think there was some changes planned to move it too Jan through to September and then some extra events after that

They won’t be able to venture too far due to the Telly market and prime time viewing , i believe that’s why there were some issues when they co sanctioned with the Australian Open and also why a world tour is a tough ask - the big sponsership wants the prime time US market

 

[Mel Smooth]

So you are ignoring existing PGA Tour Canada, PGA Tour Latinoamerica, Korn Ferry Tour (mostly in US though) and PGA Tour China! All are PGA Tour entities.

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned China ?

 

[Foxholer]

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned China ?

You posted that after I'd 'Quote'd Post 2631.
FWIW The PGA Latinoamerica already goes to Chile, Peru, Argentina, Brazil. along with some Central American countries. Which South American countries would LIV go to that aren't already 'serviced' by The PGA?

 

[Mel Smooth]

You posted that after I'd 'Quote'd Post 2631.
FWIW The PGA Latinoamerica already goes to Chile, Peru, Argentina, Brazil. along with some Central American countries. Which South American countries would LIV go to that aren't already 'serviced' by The PGA?

I actually said - and you can check this by reading my post "South America maybe".

Perhaps you can focus on the context of my post, which is about the LIV being able to be truly global, wheras the PGA Tour has limitations.

If you want to carry on this rather pathetic position you seem happy with, of trying to ridicule posters with pointless comments, I'll just stop responding.

 

[Foxholer]

I actually said - and you can check this by reading my post "South America maybe".

Perhaps you can focus on the context of my post, which is about the LIV being able to be truly global, wheras the PGA Tour has limitations.

If you want to carry on this rather pathetic position you seem happy with, of trying to ridicule posters with pointless comments, I'll just stop responding.

Exactly what limitations, virtually unlimited funding aside, does the PGA have that LIV doesn't? Apart, perhaps, the 'good manners' to not stomp all over existing tours?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Exactly what limitations, virtually unlimited funding aside, does the PGA have that LIV doesn't? Apart, perhaps, the 'good manners' to not stomp all over existing tours?

Money, it's already been stated. The PGA tour audience won't watch live golf in those areas because they have no vested interest - as I keep saying, it's a golf for America, by America.

LIV isn't and is already generating significant interest in countries where the PGA overlook.

I hardly think Thailand will feel like having Bryson, DJ, Phil, Brooks etc, playing in their country, is "stomping all over their tours" either, do you?