LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

Why?

Why not - plenty was made of how much Steve Williams made while carrying the bag for Tiger - it's a great story and good on him for making a fantastic living out of the industry. Some of the players on the LIV will only dream of making that kind of money - and they are playing - not caddying, so yeah, if a caddy who perhaps might be just about scraping a living can pick up a few hundred grand this weekend - then I'm all for that.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Yea right

Did you watch the interview I posted about Andy Ogletree earlier buddy. They aren't all the soulless mercenaries the media want you to believe.

 

[Swango1980]

Yea right

I think it is a fair point. Probably difficult for any of us to.put ourselves in their shoes. But, if I was a pro golfer then I'd spend nearly every week with my caddy. There would probably be a very strong relationship between us both, probably really good friends. A lot of the time a pro is interviewed about how they played, they often use "we" rather than "I".

If I was a very wealthy pro, I'd still think that if I went on the LIV Tour, that extra money may not be needed by me, but I'd feel guilty if I denied my good friend (caddy) the chance to earn a life changing amount. I'm sure any player will have discussed their decision to play or not play with all the people around them, especially their caddy.

 

[Ethan]

Right now, it seems there are two types of player involved. One is the player in their 40s who is no longer really competitive and is happy to cash in and see how the land lies in a few years when they get to Champions Tour age. The other is the young player who hasn't yet got their PGA Tour card and sees this as a faster route to big bucks. Whether that makes for an interesting blend or not, we'll have to see. I am not sure a battle between Kevin Na and Andy Ogletree is going to draw in the audiences.

 

[Swango1980]

Right now, it seems there are two types of player involved. One is the player in their 40s who is no longer really competitive and is happy to cash in and see how the land lies in a few years when they get to Champions Tour age. The other is the young player who hasn't yet got their PGA Tour card and sees this as a faster route to big bucks. Whether that makes for an interesting blend or not, we'll have to see. I am not sure a battle between Kevin Na and Andy Ogletree is going to draw in the audiences.

And then there is a 3rd type of player. Dustin Johnson

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Did you watch the interview I posted about Andy Ogletree earlier buddy. They aren't all the soulless mercenaries the media want you to believe.

I did. It was complete BS. The sense of entitlement was comical and was exactly what I referred to earlier about players making up their justification for joining liv. I’d much rather they were all honest and said they just want loads more money.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I did. It was complete BS. The sense of entitlement was comical and was exactly what I referred to earlier about players making up their justification for joining liv. I’d much rather they were all honest and said they just want loads more money.

The guy has made 38 grand in his career, he'll make 3 times that amount guaranteed at the weekend. Loads MORE money? Mmm, maybe he just wants to earn SOME money.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thats a few years down the line, at the moment it looks very much like the BDO vs the PDC. For the foreseeable future the LIV world champion will be a PGA also ran....

It will stay that way - players looking to gain quick money and players who’s career in on the way down

The events will miss a key ingredient for many of the current top golfers - ranking points , the ranking points that get golfers into the majors and WGCs etc.

And I don’t see that changing much - also don’t think it will take long for the USGA and R&A to find ways to stop the players entering The Open or US Open

The guy has made 38 grand in his career, he'll make 3 times that amount guaranteed at the weekend. Loads MORE money? Mmm, maybe he just wants to earn SOME money.

He could have done that on the PGA tour - but he wasn’t good enough ?‍

 

[Barking_Mad]

The guy has made 38 grand in his career, he'll make 3 times that amount guaranteed at the weekend. Loads MORE money? Mmm, maybe he just wants to earn SOME money.

He's only played 13 events and missed 9 cuts. If he wants a guaranteed income then he can either get good or get another job.

Edit: The amount of money in golf is obscene, but at least it's easy to see who is the best. With LIV, not so much as even flat last at an invitational event will be earning decent money.

 

[Swango1980]

It will stay that way - players looking to gain quick money and players who’s career in on the way down

The events will miss a key ingredient for many of the current top golfers - ranking points , the ranking points that get golfers into the majors and WGCs etc.

And I don’t see that changing much - also don’t think it will take long for the USGA and R&A to find ways to stop the players entering The Open or US Open



He could have done that on the PGA tour - but he wasn’t good enough ?‍

You are not good enough to win money on the PGA Tour either. Forgetting complications with Amateur status, if you were asked to play on LIV tour and get a minimum of £250,000, would you say yes?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

You are not good enough to win money on the PGA Tour either. Forgetting complications with Amateur status, if you were asked to play on LIV tour and get a minimum of £250,000, would you say yes?

Yes I would, and that would also highlight what a crock it is, if they are having comparative hackers on their tour.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes I would, and that would also highlight what a crock it is, if they are having comparative hackers on their tour.

Indeed. As a fan, I think it will be very much a gimmick to begin with. I certainly don't think the team format, shotgun start or 54 holes will have much impact on viewers.

However, what will be interesting is if they can fund it longer term. Right now, of course virtually all the best players in world will he loyal to PGA Tour, although there may be a gradual trickle across once players like DJ get pulled over. Longer term though, players retire, new blood comes in. Young elite amateurs will not have same loyalty to PGA Tour. Sure, many will still play in PGA Tour as that is where the best players still play. But, some will also go to LIV, some of who may prove to become top players. It would make the LIV tour more legitimate in terms of having quality golfers. Then the PGA Tour would have an even bigger fight on its hands. Especially as the LIV Tour will have had a few years to iron out the format, and some of the changes compared to the PGA Tour may actually end up working well.

After that, even longer terms, what happens? Presumably Saudi money can't fund it forever, and it will need to become self sustaining? Will it be able to compete, and beat the PGA Tour in terms of broadcasting and sponsorship money? I guess so, I'm sure China might start getting interested.

 

[Ethan]

And then there is a 3rd type of player. Dustin Johnson

I think he is making a play to join the first group. Down 12 places in the OWGR since the end of 2021.

 

[Mel Smooth]

He's only played 13 events and missed 9 cuts. If he wants a guaranteed income then he can either get good or get another job.

Edit: The amount of money in golf is obscene, but at least it's easy to see who is the best. With LIV, not so much as even flat last at an invitational event will be earning decent money.

2019 US Open Amateur champion, played in the Masters, and no doubt devoted his life to golf. I'm pretty sure he's trying to get better, but if you were in his position, would you persevere through a tough spell, or would you sack it off to go and work elsewhere?

 

[Swango1980]

I think he is making a play to join the first group. Down 12 places in the OWGR since the end of 2021.

Perhaps, but he is still only 37 years old and he is 15th best player in the world. More than likely he is just going through one of those spells of poor form, or maybe he is carrying a minor injury. However, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that he is no longer going to be competitive (and he certainly isn't in his 40's, which would rule him out of your 1st group for the next few years anyway).

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Grace, Sergio. Luis and schwartzel resign from PGA tour

Can't be blocked from majors this year they have qualified

Sergio , Phil DJ qualified masters for life

The tour has the us amateur champ in it

This isn't going to die a death as quick as people want

 

[sweaty sock]

The amatuer thing is a strong point currently, if i was the a top amateur and had the choice of playing for 250k last place, or 135k going to first place, with the last place getting more tv better sponsorship and better recognition... well the kornferry stands no chance really does it... imagine if morikawa, hovland, zalatoris, burns etc etc had dodged the kornferry and went straight to LIV, itd be a real competitor already....

 

[Swango1980]

What is the situation regarding world ranking points? Will there be any points available (albeit smaller than on PGA due to quality of the field), or are there none available at all?

 

[garyinderry]

The amatuer thing is a strong point currently, if i was the a top amateur and had the choice of playing for 250k last place, or 135k going to first place, with the last place getting more tv better sponsorship and better recognition... well the kornferry stands no chance really does it... imagine if morikawa, hovland, zalatoris, burns etc etc had dodged the kornferry and went straight to LIV, itd be a real competitor already....

That option will only be available when theres room. 48 at present. Once more bottom rung pros join plus more higher ranking men, the opportunities for those amateurs coming through will dry up.

 

[sweaty sock]

That option will only be available when theres room. 48 at present. Once more bottom rung pros join plus more higher ranking men, the opportunities for those amateurs coming through will dry up.

They can solve that though, currently the pga actively prevent good college and amateur players getting to the pga, the routes massively favour those already there. The kornferry takes atleast a year and is so competitive its nowhere near a breeze even for the best amatuers. It means the talent in the feeder tour is almost as good as the main tour, look at performances right out of the gate by Zalatoris, Periera.

LIV could literally phone a top college player, and they could be a millionaire tour player the next day. They could do the same to a promising KF tour player. In that future its the PGA that ages out not the LIV.