LIV Golf

[Gopher]

I just don't get how a 'Divide and Conquer" attitude towards world golf can be a good thing.

I'd like to watch the best golfers in the world compete against each other to find out... who is the best in the world. It seems that will now only happen in a few Majors.

LIV has divided golfers across the globe and if it's happy with what it has achieved.... Rory vs Rahm vs Smith vs Koepke vs Hovland, etc on a weekly basis, which would have been awesome, then well done. It has damage the golfing fraternity forever. Sadly that will not happen now.

The winners are the multi-millionaires with huge bank balances...... the losers are the fans who pay the players wages.

 

[Captain_Black.]

For me, the PGAT has more than enough great players to provide the spectacles that we have become used to.
I hope they can improve the tour & look after their players & secure the funds / sponsorship they need to run the tour.

LIV is just a yawn fest, they can merrily go their own way.
Comparing the PGAT to LIV is like comparing Liverpool v Barcelona in the Champions league & Luton v Fulham.
There is no worthy comparison.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I just don't get how a 'Divide and Conquer" attitude towards world golf can be a good thing.

I'd like to watch the best golfers in the world compete against each other to find out... who is the best in the world. It seems that will now only happen in a few Majors.

LIV has divided golfers across the globe and if it's happy with what it has achieved.... Rory vs Rahm vs Smith vs Koepke vs Hovland, etc on a weekly basis, which would have been awesome, then well done. It has damage the golfing fraternity forever. Sadly that will not happen now.

The winners are the multi-millionaires with huge bank balances...... the losers are the fans who pay the players wages.

When the dust settles you will see the top players competing on a Sunday way more often than you have been accustomed to.

 

[Mel Smooth]

The LiV cheerleaders don’t seem to have grasped that ‘never had an offer’ doesn’t mean he was never approached.

Rory would have been number 2 on their shopping list after the big cat.

What you seemingly haven’t grasped is that he may well have been approached, and LIV may well have realised that one day, when players he considers his equals are getting offers he can’t refuse, they could make him an offer he can’t refuse, rather than repeatedly making offers he’d no interest in at that time.
Rory has clearly positioned himself in recent weeks to put him onside with LIV.

Maybe it’s just all coincidental..

 

[Deleted member 21445]

The reaction to Liv now compared to 12 months ago is night and day.

Mainly because of June 6th when the PGA Tour gave it their approval.

 

[Pin-seeker]

He could join LiV then he wouldn’t be allowed an opinion!

And that’s a bad thing?

 

[Gopher]

When the dust settles you will see the top players competing on a Sunday way more often than you have been accustomed to.

I don't understand that, what exactly do you mean? Will we ever see the top 20 players in the world compete against each other... outside of 4 x a year in Majors?

As a ticket-paying punter, that's all I wish for... I really don't want to read about multi-millionaires boosting their bank balance by a few hundred million more. It means nothing to me.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I don't understand that, what exactly do you mean? Will we ever see the top 20 players in the world compete against each other... outside of 4 x a year in Majors?

As a ticket-paying punter, that's all I wish for... I really don't want to read about multi-millionaires boosting their bank balance by a few hundred million more. It means nothing to me.

The plan from day one with LIV, was for it to be an additive to the golf world, with the best players in the world competing in their events, across the planet. On top of that, they'd also be able to play in the high profile PGAT and DPWT events (Ok, there's not really many of those), and on top of that, they'd obviously play in The Majors.

We're going to end up with that, might be 2025 when it all comes together, but that's where we are heading.

 

[BubbaP]

I don't understand that, what exactly do you mean? Will we ever see the top 20 players in the world compete against each other... outside of 4 x a year in Majors?

As a ticket-paying punter, that's all I wish for... I really don't want to read about multi-millionaires boosting their bank balance by a few hundred million more. It means nothing to me.

Mel will likely be speculating how things might look after an agreement.

I think you maybe have to consider what you want though. IMO the trajectory the PGAT were on pre the turmoil was trying to have a fair number of events with stronger fields, and bigger purses than the traditional majors. So would you then end up with 16 or whatever 'major equivalents' , then do the traditional ones become after thoughts in time.

It's fine for you to want that if so, but not everyone does. Some may like a less frequent coming together to keep that 'special'

 

[WGCRider]

Formula 1 ?

There's more than 1 reason LIV is shotgun start, and one of them is it fits into a much shorter broadcast window, meaning it has increased flexibility to suit many global viewers.

I'm not a fan so don't watch much formula 1 but in the main their events are set on a Sunday afternoon Europe time - hence the later starts and night races. Sure not all the events fit but in the main they do.

Shotgun starts doesn't solve this - in fact cause the whole event is shorter it makes it worse. The Australia LIV event is over before Europe is out of bed.

If you want to create appointment television you do need to set a time for that appointment.

 

[Gopher]

with the best players in the world competing in their events, across the planet.

Ok, selective highlighting.. but if LIV has 48(?) players then it's never going to get the 'best players in the world'. Think McKilroy, Fitzpatrick, Morikawa, Hatton, Straka, Fleetwood, Speith, Thomas... all players that I would consider among the best in the world but won't compete with the other best players in the world... Rahm, Koepka, Smith, etc. Sorry but it just ain't going to happen and that's just a shame for the average punter who loves golf and pays to watch it. It's Divide and Conquer and Norman is sadly loving it.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Mel will likely be speculating how things might look after an agreement.

I think you maybe have to consider what you want though. IMO the trajectory the PGAT were on pre the turmoil was trying to have a fair number of events with stronger fields, and bigger purses than the traditional majors. So would you then end up with 16 or whatever 'major equivalents' , then do the traditional ones become after thoughts in time.

It's fine for you to want that if so, but not everyone does. Some may like a less frequent coming together to keep that 'special'

If there's no agreement, the PIF can just keep buying the star PGAT players - like they have been doing thus far and we know how damaging that has been.

Ultimately - the scenario I've described above is what the vast majority of people would hope to see as a resolution, from punters to sponsors and investors - it'll happen one way or another.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Ok, selective highlighting.. but if LIV has 48(?) players then it's never going to get the 'best players in the world'. Think McKilroy, Fitzpatrick, Morikawa, Hatton, Straka, Fleetwood, Speith, Thomas... all players that I would consider among the best in the world but won't compete with the other best players in the world... Rahm, Koepka, Smith, etc. Sorry but it just ain't going to happen and that's just a shame for the average punter who loves golf and pays to watch it. It's Divide and Conquer and Norman is sadly loving it.

They'll have more than 48 players - they'll have at least 52 in a few weeks time in Mayakoba.

Is there anything stopping them having spots available to the best players in the world who aren't already on LIV, on a rolling basis? - no, there isn't.

You could see a scenario where players are trying to qualify for LIV by boosting their rankings on a PGAT event the weekend before - not too dissimilar to major qualification.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I'm not a fan so don't watch much formula 1 but in the main their events are set on a Sunday afternoon Europe time - hence the later starts and night races. Sure not all the events fit but in the main they do.

Shotgun starts doesn't solve this - in fact cause the whole event is shorter it makes it worse. The Australia LIV event is over before Europe is out of bed.

If you want to create appointment television you do need to set a time for that appointment.

Yet it generates about 65 million dollars for the economy locally. Maybe the focus on making golf 'appointment television' is not the only factor worth considering - especially if that means washing the product out with adverts and commercials.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ok, selective highlighting.. but if LIV has 48(?) players then it's never going to get the 'best players in the world'. Think McKilroy, Fitzpatrick, Morikawa, Hatton, Straka, Fleetwood, Speith, Thomas... all players that I would consider among the best in the world but won't compete with the other best players in the world... Rahm, Koepka, Smith, etc. Sorry but it just ain't going to happen and that's just a shame for the average punter who loves golf and pays to watch it. It's Divide and Conquer and Norman is sadly loving it.

As we have seen what’s happened over the last 18 plus months has actually put more people off watching golf outside the majors

LIV as a product still can’t attract players based on what it can offer outside the money - even their latest recruit stated he didn’t like the product

PIF ultimately want to have a say in all sports , they are paying big money to get boxing fights there and they are proving to be a flop , they are spending fortunes getting footballers to their league and no one is interested and it’s what they are trying to do with Golf. They won’t be allowed to gain any majority footing in the PGAt hence why they are looking at US businesses to provide investment and only have a minority investment for PIF but that’s not going to be what they want.

The US market is key for the sport and LIV won’t break into that , the market outside isn’t big enough to sustain any rich world tour so LIV will continue to rely on being held up for PIF .

LIV still can’t get any mainstream media , we have seen their income from last season £2-3mil media income and a total of £70mil overall isn’t going to work - they need the big sponsers , they need the media deals , they don’t have enough eyes on from the living room. They can keep on spending hundreds of millions on players but it doesn’t bring them ranking points or access into majors and it’s certainly not getting people switching on to golf and it’s why IMO PIF want to get in with the PGAT

Rory’s idea of some sort of team matchplay events at the start and end of the season looks a good idea - the top 48 players in the world have some team matchplay events , a bit like an alternative Ryder Cup etc - that would get people interested - not the nonsense that Greg Norman has dreamed up

Tour golf is at a crossroads - it’s tried the WGC events where the top 70 play more often but they didn’t work , people want to see the top players play in the majors but not in every single event and to saturate the sport - there still needs to be events for players to burst through , the underdogs , the unknowns winning from nowhere - keep the majors special and keep the regular tour events the ones for players to come through

 

[Gopher]

You could see a scenario where players are trying to qualify for LIV by boosting their rankings on a PGAT event the weekend before - not too dissimilar to major qualification.

That would be fine if all the best players in the 'old' OWGR wanted to play for LIV.. but that's not the case. Some do, which is fair enough, but some want to stay with the legacy tours... there's a division within the top 50+ players in the world... there always will be. I my humble opinion that's not good for golf... see the confusing and non-commital world of boxing for comparison. Nobody knows who the best boxer in the world is... but they earn squillions so don't really care.

 

[Mel Smooth]

That would be fine if all the best players in the 'old' OWGR wanted to play for LIV.. but that's not the case. Some do, which is fair enough, but some want to stay with the legacy tours... there's a division within the top 50+ players in the world... there always will be. I my humble opinion that's not good for golf... see the confusing and non-commital world of boxing for comparison. Nobody knows who the best boxer in the world is... but they earn squillions so don't really care.

So those players that don't want to play on LIV will get to square up in the majors, that's their call. Trust me, there won't be many of them - they are all where they are for the money, not legacy...

 

[Gopher]

Have any top 50 players defected to LIV because they want to be part of the 'LIV experience' and haven't been given a sign-on fee? Just because they want to be part of LIV with no initial financial benefit, no bank balance increase but they truly believe in the LIV World?

Genuine question.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have any top 50 players defected to LIV because they want to be part of the 'LIV experience' and haven't been given a sign-on fee? Just because they want to be part of LIV with no initial financial benefit, no bank balance increase but they truly believe in the LIV World?

Genuine question.

There are a number of players who didn’t get signing on fees or any contract but moved across because of the level of money they could get even by finishing last - suspect most of the “fillers” are players not on contracts

Most of the big name players and ex Ryder Cup players ( Poulter , Westwood ) are on a contract of sorts

 

[Pin-seeker]

As we have seen what’s happened over the last 18 plus months has actually put more people off watching golf outside the majors

LIV as a product still can’t attract players based on what it can offer outside the money - even their latest recruit stated he didn’t like the product

PIF ultimately want to have a say in all sports , they are paying big money to get boxing fights there and they are proving to be a flop , they are spending fortunes getting footballers to their league and no one is interested and it’s what they are trying to do with Golf. They won’t be allowed to gain any majority footing in the PGAt hence why they are looking at US businesses to provide investment and only have a minority investment for PIF but that’s not going to be what they want.

The US market is key for the sport and LIV won’t break into that , the market outside isn’t big enough to sustain any rich world tour so LIV will continue to rely on being held up for PIF .

LIV still can’t get any mainstream media , we have seen their income from last season £2-3mil media income and a total of £70mil overall isn’t going to work - they need the big sponsers , they need the media deals , they don’t have enough eyes on from the living room. They can keep on spending hundreds of millions on players but it doesn’t bring them ranking points or access into majors and it’s certainly not getting people switching on to golf and it’s why IMO PIF want to get in with the PGAT

Rory’s idea of some sort of team matchplay events at the start and end of the season looks a good idea - the top 48 players in the world have some team matchplay events , a bit like an alternative Ryder Cup etc - that would get people interested - not the nonsense that Greg Norman has dreamed up

Tour golf is at a crossroads - it’s tried the WGC events where the top 70 play more often but they didn’t work , people want to see the top players play in the majors but not in every single event and to saturate the sport - there still needs to be events for players to burst through , the underdogs , the unknowns winning from nowhere - keep the majors special and keep the regular tour events the ones for players to come through

That’s all the players want.
That’s all they’ve ever wanted.
That’s why they sign all the brand deals,do all the endorsements.
Do you really think Rory (for example) signed with TM because they offered him the best equipment?
It’s all about making the money