LIV Golf

[Deleted member 21445]

Still very difficult to overcome the fact that no golfers want to play LIV. Even those there. They prefer to play PGAT for free, than move !
Thats a big stumbling block.

With respect you were saying that for ages and then arguably the worlds best golfer Jon Rahm moved to Liv.

If Rahm went then in theory anybody could go bar Rory and Tiger.

 

[Backsticks]

Better tell Rham that....

He knows it already. He didnt want to be in LIV. Still doesnt. Nor do the rest of them.

 

[Mel Smooth]

He knows it already. He didnt want to be in LIV. Still doesnt. Nor do the rest of them.

Have you got any thing that backs that opinion up?

 

[Hobbit]

He knows it already. He didnt want to be in LIV. Still doesnt. Nor do the rest of them.

I’m going to put the mod hat on here and suggest you’re trolling for an argument. You have absolutely no foundation for that statement. Wind it back a little.

 

[Dando]

I’m going to put the mod hat on here and suggest you’re trolling for an argument. You have absolutely no foundation for that statement. Wind it back a little.

is being "hobbited" worse than being "fraggered?"

 

[Deleted member 1147]

is being "hobbited" worse than being "fraggered?"

At least being hobbited should mean getting a 2nd breakfast

 

[Mel Smooth]

4 days and counting to a definitive agreement announcement.

Will it happen ???

It seems to have all gone awfully quiet on the rumour mill...

On the face of it, it looks like some players who have been approached about switching over to LIV have decided against it because they are concerned about getting access to the majors - which would suggest those in control of the OWGR are standing firm against LIV - it's quite possible this could be being used a bargaining tool over the terms of the merger of course.
Conversely, the PIF can just wait to see if there is no agreement, then use the funds they were going to invest into the PGAT to up the offers to the players they want - although I doubt they are going to make any mind blowing offers - the players left on the PGAT don't warrant that, with the exception of Tiger, and Rory - who I would not bet against moving, despite everything he has said since the inception of LIV.

I guess the bottom line is this, the PGAT needs investment, which they'll get from either PE, the PIF, or the combination of both - but they also need some of those LIV players back to add value back to their product - because people have now realised it just isn't all that - you only have to see the reliance on Tiger making an appearance on any PGAT associated event to confirm that - while LIV has been met with derision for being an exhibition tour, the PGAT has been turning into exactly that.

What do the PIF need out of the agreement - well short term they need their product to be getting televised (and a fair deal from the golf media that has fueled the LIV hatred) which was stated on June 6. Longer term it's a much bigger picture of course, putting Saudi on the tourism and commerce map - and they obviously see golf and other sports as a key component in that.

A deal is the best option for all parties, but if there's no deal - well Yassir et al will have a plan for that, and it will be quite disruptive.

 

[C7usk]

It seems to have all gone awfully quiet on the rumour mill...

On the face of it, it looks like some players who have been approached about switching over to LIV have decided against it because they are concerned about getting access to the majors - which would suggest those in control of the OWGR are standing firm against LIV - it's quite possible this could be being used a bargaining tool over the terms of the merger of course.
Conversely, the PIF can just wait to see if there is no agreement, then use the funds they were going to invest into the PGAT to up the offers to the players they want - although I doubt they are going to make any mind blowing offers - the players left on the PGAT don't warrant that, with the exception of Tiger, and Rory - who I would not bet against moving, despite everything he has said since the inception of LIV.

I guess the bottom line is this, the PGAT needs investment, which they'll get from either PE, the PIF, or the combination of both - but they also need some of those LIV players back to add value back to their product - because people have now realised it just isn't all that - you only have to see the reliance on Tiger making an appearance on any PGAT associated event to confirm that - while LIV has been met with derision for being an exhibition tour, the PGAT has been turning into exactly that.

What do the PIF need out of the agreement - well short term they need their product to be getting televised (and a fair deal from the golf media that has fueled the LIV hatred) which was stated on June 6. Longer term it's a much bigger picture of course, putting Saudi on the tourism and commerce map - and they obviously see golf and other sports as a key component in that.

A deal is the best option for all parties, but if there's no deal - well Yassir et al will have a plan for that, and it will be quite disruptive.

Am Sorry Mel, I still just don't get the whole enjoyment of watching LIV... It wouldnt matter to me if more top players went to join.. I still wouldn't watch it. I just don't like the format... Mainly the shotgun start tbh... I like to see the leaders coming down the stretch facing the same thing challenges / conditions etc that the groups before them have had to face. Whilst I agree the pga have been weekend significantly, it is nowhere near an exhibition tour yet.. It has the courses, prestige and history that money cannot buy...
I hope for the average punter that there is some agreement and we can get back to watching the best players competing against each other on a regular basis, rather than just at the majors..

 

[Mel Smooth]

Am Sorry Mel, I still just don't get the whole enjoyment of watching LIV... It wouldnt matter to me if more top players went to join.. I still wouldn't watch it. I just don't like the format... Mainly the shotgun start tbh... I like to see the leaders coming down the stretch facing the same thing challenges / conditions etc that the groups before them have had to face. Whilst I agree the pga have been weekend significantly, it is nowhere near an exhibition tour yet.. It has the courses, prestige and history that money cannot buy...
I hope for the average punter that there is some agreement and we can get back to watching the best players competing against each other on a regular basis, rather than just at the majors..

Don't most tournaments end with the leaders coming down the stretch knowing how many shots they have spare in order to win - it's actually quite rare to see anything exciting happening in the closing stages of a 72 hole comp - not helped of course by the 4 days of play allowing the leader to build up a lead that is often insurmountable.

The PGAT isn't an exhibition tour - yet - but if they are reliant on Tiger as "The Needle mover" isn't that a problem for them - he's not competitive, he can't compete regularly, so if the reason people will want to watch an event is primarily because of a player who is long past his best - rather than for the players at the sharp end of the leaderboard, then it will very quickly become exactly that.

As for courses and prestige, well there are some pretty decent courses already signed up to long term LIV agreements, and they are global, not a forming a domestic tour which the PGAT is - from an investors/sponsors point of view, do you want to be hitting the same audience week in, week out, or do you want to be getting worldwide recognition?

The LIV product ticks a lot of boxes that the PGAT can't.

 

[wjemather]

Am Sorry Mel, I still just don't get the whole enjoyment of watching LIV... It wouldnt matter to me if more top players went to join.. I still wouldn't watch it. I just don't like the format... Mainly the shotgun start tbh... I like to see the leaders coming down the stretch facing the same thing challenges / conditions etc that the groups before them have had to face. Whilst I agree the pga have been weekend significantly, it is nowhere near an exhibition tour yet.. It has the courses, prestige and history that money cannot buy...
I hope for the average punter that there is some agreement and we can get back to watching the best players competing against each other on a regular basis, rather than just at the majors..

This argument doesn't compute because this is what does happen - the leading groups all start on the 1st hole and finish on the 18th.

Also, almost all elite professional tournament golf is an exhibition. And the PGA Tour regularly rewrites it's own history, and has happily binned off it's most historic tournaments and classic courses in favour of money from sponsors and boring (because they don't challenge top players in any meaningful way) resort courses.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Mainly the shotgun start tbh... I like to see the leaders coming down the stretch facing the same thing challenges / conditions etc that the groups before them have had to face.

The Top 6 players (last 2 groups) going into the final round go off the 1st tee.
Im pretty sure from memory every Liv Event has been won on the 18th green.

 

[Captain_Black.]

To all the LIV fans.
I'm glad you enjoy it.
Me personally, I dislike it intensely & don't bother watching it.
As time moves on, new talent will emerge & hopefully the PGA will do more to protect & reward its players.
I hope there isn't a deal & the LIV defectors are consigned to history.
Let them carry on with their exhibition events which carry no prestige & nobody either remembers or cares who won.
I would prefer it if the PGA banned the defectors from all PGA events & the Ryder cup, as this I believe would act as a deterrent fir future defections.

Sure, the PGA events & Ryder cup will be diluted for a while, but the new talent will soon emerge & if the PGA play it right it'll be LIV that will just become background noise.

 

[IanM]

I wonder if banning is a deterrent.

If you're a young pro, oodles of cash to support your wider family for the next 100 years, is more attractive than 3 days matchplay

But contractually, you have to say you're growing the game.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Why would anybody want to see players banned?

The BEST solution to this is a remodelling of pro golf that sees the top players competing together MORE frequently than they ever have. Why would anybody have an objection to that?

 

[IanM]

The BEST solution to this is a remodelling of pro golf that sees the top players competing together MORE frequently than they ever have. Why would anybody have an objection to that?

They used to!

LIV stopped that by settling up in direct competition and wooed players from the main Tours with exceptional amounts of money.

Weird. I thought you were pro Liv?

 

[Captain_Black.]

Why would anybody want to see players banned?

The BEST solution to this is a remodelling of pro golf that sees the top players competing together MORE frequently than they ever have. Why would anybody have an objection to that?

Because although I get that everyone "has their price" it's only right that those who are prepared to sell their careers don't have the right to participate in elite golf.
The "top players" of today will soon fade into history, new talent will emerge & participate in elite historic tournaments that most people think of as elite professional golf.

LIV will just fade away into some kind of circus that someone thought was a good idea at the time.

 

[Mel Smooth]

They used to!

LIV stopped that by settling up in direct competition and wooed players from the main Tours with exceptional amounts of money.

Weird. I thought you were pro Liv?

Ok, it’s been stated many times on here, and there are quotes and evidence to back it up. LIV didn’t set up in direct competition with anybody, they set up something new, that would appeal to more people, new and existing audiences, and to exist alongside the many other tours around the world.

The reason why LIV players do not currently play on the PGAT, is on the PGAT.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Because although I get that everyone "has their price" it's only right that those who are prepared to sell their careers don't have the right to participate in elite golf.
The "top players" of today will soon fade into history, new talent will emerge & participate in elite historic tournaments that most people think of as elite professional golf.

LIV will just fade away into some kind of circus that someone thought was a good idea at the time.

New talent will emerge all over the world. The only incentive that those players have to go to the PGAT is the farcical OWGR system that means the primary way to access a major is through a domestic northern American tour.
But the majors will change their policy, they’ll have to, because the sponsors and investors will want the best players in the world at their events, as the game now becomes truly global.

The only reason the PGAT has earned the reputation for being the elite tour is down to the prize money they have paid. Don’t be fooled into thinking it’s anything more than that.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Ok, it’s been stated many times on here, and there are quotes and evidence to back it up. LIV didn’t set up in direct competition with anybody, they set up something new, that would appeal to more people, new and existing audiences, and to exist alongside the many other tours around the world.

The reason why LIV players do not currently play on the PGAT, is on the PGAT.

Of course it set up in direct opposition to the existing tours.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Of course it set up in direct opposition to the existing tours.

In what way?