LIV Golf

[doublebogey7]

I actually don’t care. All the noise and posturing by overinflated egos on the respective tours/organisations is quite pathetic. If any of the tours are playing near me I’ll go and watch. I don’t care which tour, or who will be playing. There’ll be enough more than decent players on either of the tours to make spectating worthwhile.

Fair enough

 

[Mel Smooth]

How many times does it have to be said that the PGAT withdraw themselves from the process. Or perhaps you are saying that'd what the told the world, in which case the Majors are most definitely conspiring with a third party.

I'm sure they did, did Peter Dawson confiscate Jay Monaghans phone, laptop, ipad, etc until they'd concluded their decision, which has been rumbling on for well over 12 months?

 

[wjemather]

The idea is their choice is either tour but not both. Cake and eat it comes to mind…

Only the PGAT have excluded LIV golfers - most are free to play any other tournaments they are exempt for or invited to.

And if players want more points, let them try and qualify for the PGAT. And if they’re not good enough, they’re not good enough.

Forcing everyone to move to the US and reinforcing the PGAT monopoly seem like bad ideas. Plus, not everyone wants to.

 

[wjemather]

Or the best players in the world all play on the PGAT, so provide the vast majority of the players for the majors. That is undoubtedly how the majors see it, otherwise they would not have, in your words, skewed the OWGR.

No they don't.
And the majors did not create the new owgr system (they didn't create the old one either). However, the PGAT played a big role in its development.

 

[doublebogey7]

I'm sure they did, did Peter Dawson confiscate Jay Monaghans phone, laptop, ipad, etc until they'd concluded their decision, which has been rumbling on for well over 12 months?

What has computer equipment got to to with anything.

 

[doublebogey7]

No they don't.
And the majors did not create the new owgr system. However, the PGAT played a big role in its development.

We're going down enough blind alleys so lets not debate that.

The Majors make up half the decision making body that made the decision to change to the current system, so could have out voted the remainder prior to the casting vote of the independent Chair. In any case I very much doubt the majors would continue to support the OWGR if their view was carrying no weight.
Anyway, we are just going round in circles so I am out now.

 

[AussieKB]

So put differently the majors are getting the 4 players they want in Koepka, Johnson, Bryson and Phil. For the rest most people wouldn't know them if they were standing next to them so they aren't losing out.
Seems like a win for the majors. Meanwhile people playing on the PGA tour get to build their reputation every week in tournaments people actually watch.

You are forgetting Cam Smith, before he moved to LIV he was the Open, Champion of Champions and Players Champion, not a bad collection, but anything to fit your narrative.

 

[4LEX]

Genuine question to any LIV fans. Do you think any LIV golfers have actually improved since signing up, bar Gooch? Forget everything else, let's just focus on golf.

It looks to me the majority have lost motivation, are enjoying a part time doss and laughing all the way to the bank with a lot of moaning thrown in. While that's great for their finances, it's actually sad for the game as a whole.

 

[Swango1980]

Genuine question to any LIV fans. Do you think any LIV golfers have actually improved since signing up, bar Gooch? Forget everything else, let's just focus on golf.

It looks to me the majority have lost motivation, are enjoying a part time doss and laughing all the way to the bank with a lot of moaning thrown in. While that's great for their finances, it's actually sad for the game as a whole.

I predicted this could happen when they left. Even if it was just to a few of them. But, to LIV fans, despite the fact they have their guaranteed money regardless, and only 47 competitors, they'll be as driven and focused as always. They'll always want to win.

I mean, I always want to win our 3 club competition, and I want to win our club champs. I must be weird, though, that before club champs I'll go to club most nights beforehand for a couple of weeks and practice, while in the 3 club I'll have not swung a club in 2 weeks and turn up 5 minutes before my tee time

 

[Mel Smooth]

Genuine question to any LIV fans. Do you think any LIV golfers have actually improved since signing up, bar Gooch? Forget everything else, let's just focus on golf.

It looks to me the majority have lost motivation, are enjoying a part time doss and laughing all the way to the bank with a lot of moaning thrown in. While that's great for their finances, it's actually sad for the game as a whole.

Straight off the top of my head Richard Bland, and Bryson have both improved since joining. Brooks has won a major and come close in another - that's without looking up any form tables - which are out there if we want to go through every player.

There are some that have fallen short of where we'd expect them to be - Westwood is the obvious one. Mickelson's form is often poor on LIV, as I've said before - he probably takes on too much responsibility for airing his views - much the same as Rory on the other side of the fence who also isn't winning as often as he would probably like, despite the exodus of some serious competition on his chosen tour.

 

[Swango1980]

Straight off the top of my head Richard Bland, and Bryson have both improved since joining. Brooks has won a major and come close in another - that's without looking up any form tables - which are out there if we want to go through every player.

There are some that have fallen short of where we'd expect them to be - Westwood is the obvious one. Mickelson's form is often poor on LIV, as I've said before - he probably takes on too much responsibility for airing his views - much the same as Rory on the other side of the fence who also isn't winning as often as he would probably like, despite the exodus of some serious competition on his chosen tour.

Has Bryson improved?

Not that long before LIV started, Bryson was easily in top 10 in world. Up to maybe 5th or so.

Now, even in the rankings you respect more than OWGR, he is barely in Top 30.

If he played in a Major, would he be considered as high up the favourites list as he used to be?

 

[Backsticks]

Mickelsons form could not be classed as even poor anymore. He is finished as a serious golfer. Champions tour material. He is no longer part of the current golfing conversation.
As for the Bland or Gooch, how can they be ranked by beating Phil, Chase, or Westwood. That is the LIV problem. The strength of tye field is abysmal.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Has Bryson improved?

Not that long before LIV started, Bryson was easily in top 10 in world. Up to maybe 5th or so.

Now, even in the rankings you respect more than OWGR, he is barely in Top 30.

If he played in a Major, would he be considered as high up the favourites list as he used to be?

You tell me. What do you see in the graph? The cross hairs are set to Jun 22 when he joined LIV

As I said, it was off the top of my head, but that graph is pretty conclusive...

 

[Swango1980]

You tell me. What do you see in the graph? The cross hairs are set to Jun 22 when he joined LIV

As I said, it was off the top of my head, but that graph is pretty conclusive...


View attachment 50035

So, you are taking the very moment in time he joined LIV?

The flaw in your argument, then, is you are confusing form and ability. When Bryson joined LIV, he had just gone through a bad spell. In fact, I think he had been injured.

I wonder if, when people were mocking the signing of Bryson at the time as being a declining golfer, you'd have jumped to his defence by saying he was simply injured. Now, for the benefit of this argument, you are saying he had improved as a golfer since joining LIV.

Yes, his form and fitness might have improved. But I doubt he has become a better golfer if you remove form and injuries issues from the equation.

 

[SteveW86]

You tell me. What do you see in the graph? The cross hairs are set to Jun 22 when he joined LIV

As I said, it was off the top of my head, but that graph is pretty conclusive...


View attachment 50035

I was looking on there earlier and on the LIV website to compare scoring averages but I couldn’t see the data. Can I just not see it or is it not there?

 

[Dando]

I was looking on there earlier and on the LIV website to compare scoring averages but I couldn’t see the data. Can I just not see it or is it not there?

You need to be wearing shorts to see it

 

[Mel Smooth]

So, you are taking the very moment in time he joined LIV?

The flaw in your argument, then, is you are confusing form and ability. When Bryson joined LIV, he had just gone through a bad spell. In fact, I think he had been injured.

I wonder if, when people were mocking the signing of Bryson at the time as being a declining golfer, you'd have jumped to his defence by saying he was simply injured. Now, for the benefit of this argument, you are saying he had improved as a golfer since joining LIV.

Yes, his form and fitness might have improved. But I doubt he has become a better golfer if you remove form and injuries issues from the equation.

An awful lot of spin there buddy, to avoid admitting you are wrong. Is he a better golfer - he thinks he is, he's shot a 58 and he landed a drive on the apron of a 375 yard hole last week. He's earning more money, developing his own businesses, ventures and brands and the guy looks genuinely happy with where he is. We can debate whether he's a better golfer or not until the cows come home, but he obviously feels he's in a better place.

As for people mocking him when he signed...
This was your view

"Who cares, I'm told he isn't very interesting. I'm sure the PGA won't lose much sleep "

You were wrong on all counts there mate.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I was looking on there earlier and on the LIV website to compare scoring averages but I couldn’t see the data. Can I just not see it or is it not there?

You mean you couldn't see the data on the LIV site or datagolf? I don't think it'll be on the LIV site - although there is a stats page, and all the results are stored from previous events if you wanted to check back and work them out for yourself.

 

[SteveW86]

You mean you couldn't see the data on the LIV site or datagolf? I don't think it'll be on the LIV site - although there is a stats page, and all the results are stored from previous events if you wanted to check back and work them out for yourself.

I couldnt see it on both. Whilst lots of data on datagolf, I couldnt see an annual scoring average.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I couldnt see it on both. Whilst lots of data on datagolf, I couldnt see an annual scoring average.

Have a look on TUGR Steve, it's much less data based in the presentation but does provide averages over the last 18 months.