LIV Golf

[Deleted member 29109]

An awful lot of spin there buddy, to avoid admitting you are wrong. Is he a better golfer - he thinks he is, he's shot a 58 and he landed a drive on the apron of a 375 yard hole last week. He's earning more money, developing his own businesses, ventures and brands and the guy looks genuinely happy with where he is. We can debate whether he's a better golfer or not until the cows come home, but he obviously feels he's in a better place.

As for people mocking him when he signed...
This was your view

"Who cares, I'm told he isn't very interesting. I'm sure the PGA won't lose much sleep "

You were wrong on all counts there mate.

You can’t accuse someone else of spin then drift into talking about his own business and brands when his golf was being discussed.

Bryson seems to care more about the money and talking utter garbage than he does about his playing legacy.

His 58 was impressive. Quite a few players have hit long drives.
The scoring was low in general when he shot 58, so whilst impressive, the course was set up to produce low scoring. Makes the players look good.

See how easy this spin lark is.

Gooch appears to be the one player who has improved, but it is impossible to tell given the closed nature of LiV and the relatively poor standard of his opponents. Maybe looking at his performances when playing in larger fields is more indicative of his playing standard.

 

[Orikoru]

Straight off the top of my head Richard Bland, and Bryson have both improved since joining. Brooks has won a major and come close in another - that's without looking up any form tables - which are out there if we want to go through every player.

There are some that have fallen short of where we'd expect them to be - Westwood is the obvious one. Mickelson's form is often poor on LIV, as I've said before - he probably takes on too much responsibility for airing his views - much the same as Rory on the other side of the fence who also isn't winning as often as he would probably like, despite the exodus of some serious competition on his chosen tour.

Bryson simply got over his injuries. Bland was already playing decent before joining, but now he's playing in smaller/weaker fields. Brooks has always turned it on in majors.

For the over-50s (Westy, Mickelson) it was practically nailed on that they'd stop performing. Literally just took a retirement package, and the team captaincy means they can't lose their place either doesn't it? What incentive is there for them to actually try at their age? Just chip it round for three days and get paid, that's all they wanted.

 

[WGCRider]

You tell me. What do you see in the graph? The cross hairs are set to Jun 22 when he joined LIV

As I said, it was off the top of my head, but that graph is pretty conclusive...


View attachment 50035

That graph maybe isn't the winner you think it is. It show that Bryson joined LIV when his form was the worst it's been since his PGA tour breakthrough and .... it's stayed the same.

 

[Swango1980]

An awful lot of spin there buddy, to avoid admitting you are wrong. Is he a better golfer - he thinks he is, he's shot a 58 and he landed a drive on the apron of a 375 yard hole last week. He's earning more money, developing his own businesses, ventures and brands and the guy looks genuinely happy with where he is. We can debate whether he's a better golfer or not until the cows come home, but he obviously feels he's in a better place.

As for people mocking him when he signed...
This was your view

"Who cares, I'm told he isn't very interesting. I'm sure the PGA won't lose much sleep "

You were wrong on all counts there mate.

This is the funniest post yet I think. You accuse me of spin for simply asking a reasonable question, yet your post is the spiniest post I've read from you. And that is saying something.

The discussion was simply around whether he has improved, as you said "Bryson (has) improved since joining". The question was not does he think he is better, how far he has hit some isolated drives, how much he is earning, what his businesses are doing or whether he is happy.

Also, it is hilarious that you selected a quote in which I was quite clearly ridiculing those that mocked Bryson, hence the smiling face. In fact, at the time, the people that liked that post were you, AussieKB, Beezerk and pauljames87, people that are not exactly anti-LIV as far as I remember. I've said all along, since DJ joined, that those types of golfers are big signings. I included Bryson, Brooks and Smith on that list when they signed. I'll give you a few other of my Bryson quotes on this thread:

"Bryson is likely in the prime of his career, so he is yet a bigger draw. In fact, before his injury, he was most likely one of the most talked about players going into any big tournament, certainly if Tiger wasn't playing."

"I could have said if someone like Bryson moved across, the PGA Tour would be a little weaker. A fair argument, I believe, and you could have said it is irrelevant because Bryson hadn't signed up to it. Yet, here we are, and he has signed up to it."

"But, other than that, I don't think fans generally get excited by the prospect of seeing Cantlay, Smith, Hovland, Burns, Fitzpatrick, etc. I reckon if many had to make a choice, they'd rather see Bryson, DJ and Brooks battling it out on LIV." - I was probably wrong on this one generally.

"Some may hate Bryson, but it is huge for LIV and a massive blow for PGA."

So, I know you like to dismiss people who debate with you as talking garbage and their opinions should not be respected. However, before you start coming on here, shifting the context and effectively making me come across as a hypocrite, get your facts straight. I've not been 100% against LIV in every debate on this thread. I don't like it personally, but I have debated against those that have claimed certain things against LIV that I don't think stack up

 

[Mel Smooth]

That graph maybe isn't the winner you think it is. It show that Bryson joined LIV when his form was the worst it's been since his PGA tour breakthrough and .... it's stayed the same.

How does it?

 

[Swango1980]

How does it?

How can you not understand the basic interpretation of a graph. Especially a graph you have tried to use to fit an argument of yours.

You see that red line on that graph, the one that indicated when he joined LIV. Explain what the general trend in his ranking was just before that red line please? Was his ranking going upwards, or was it in a decline?

 

[Mel Smooth]

How can you not understand the basic interpretation of a graph. Especially a graph you have tried to use to fit an argument of yours.

You see that red line on that graph, the one that indicated when he joined LIV. Explain what the general trend in his ranking was just before that red line please? Was his ranking going upwards, or was it in a decline?

It was in decline - what's that got to do with a ranking improvement of 66th to 25th. If a number changes by 41, then it hasn't stayed the same has it?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

It was in decline - what's that got to do with a ranking improvement of 66th to 25th. If a number changes by 41, then it hasn't stayed the same has it?

The graph shows that he has returned to where he was a few months pre-LIV.
So yes, you could say that he has improved, in that he is now better than he has been in recent times.
Or you could say he is not the player he was because he had been a top 5 player

 

[wjemather]

Bryson simply got over his injuries. Bland was already playing decent before joining, but now he's playing in smaller/weaker fields. Brooks has always turned it on in majors.

For the over-50s (Westy, Mickelson) it was practically nailed on that they'd stop performing. Literally just took a retirement package, and the team captaincy means they can't lose their place either doesn't it? What incentive is there for them to actually try at their age? Just chip it round for three days and get paid, that's all they wanted.

LIV may have smaller fields than the DPWT, but to call them weaker is stretching the bounds of reality when a standard DPWT field has zero top-50+ players. Bland said just this week that his game has improved by playing against the likes of Cam, DJ, Koepka, Bryson, Gooch, Reed, etc. - something he never had on the DPWT.

Older players will always struggle to produce their best as regularly or as consistently as they used to - the body just doesn't allow it (and several have been carrying injuries) - but these guys haven't "stopped performing" or trying.

 

[Mel Smooth]

The graph shows that he has returned to where he was a few months pre-LIV.
So yes, you could say that he has improved, in that he is now better than he has been in recent times.
Or you could say he is not the player he was because he had been a top 5 player

It also shows the PGAT was damaging his game, if you want to interpret it that way…

It also shows he’s trending upwards and improving, so may well be on his way back to the levels he was at in his prime, thanks to the LIV schedule, if you want to interpret it that way.

What it definitely does show, is that since joining LIV, he has improved - which is the question that was asked originally.

 

[Swango1980]

It also shows the PGAT was damaging his game, if you want to interpret it that way…

It also shows he’s trending upwards and improving, so may well be on his way back to the levels he was at in his prime, thanks to the LIV schedule, if you want to interpret it that way.

What it definitely does show, is that since joining LIV, he has improved - which is the question that was asked originally.

Has he improved as a golfer generally, compared to when he was close to his best on the PGAT? I seriously doubt that, not sure any evidence supports it.

Has he improved since the day he signed up to LIV. Perhaps, I could agree with you on that point. But, it is important to highlight that this isn't spun that LIV has made him a better golfer. Rather, he has had time to get fit again, and maybe he has got past a poor run of form.

I suspect had Bryson stayed on the PGAT, there would be every chance his form would have improved from the summer of 2022 as well. I even think he would be an even better golfer than he is today. Not something we can ever prove, but just something I believe could very well be the case.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Has he improved as a golfer generally, compared to when he was close to his best on the PGAT? I seriously doubt that, not sure any evidence supports it.

Has he improved since the day he signed up to LIV. Perhaps, I could agree with you on that point. But, it is important to highlight that this isn't spun that LIV has made him a better golfer. Rather, he has had time to get fit again, and maybe he has got past a poor run of form.

I suspect had Bryson stayed on the PGAT, there would be every chance his form would have improved from the summer of 2022 as well. I even think he would be an even better golfer than he is today. Not something we can ever prove, but just something I believe could very well be the case.

So having the time that playing on LIV has given him to regain his fitness is nothing to do with LIV.

That’s your point?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

So having the time that playing on LIV has given him to regain his fitness is nothing to do with LIV.

That’s your point?

Would he have been forced to play when injured on the PGAT?

The answer is no BTW!

 

[Mel Smooth]

Would he have been forced to play when injured on the PGAT?

The answer is no BTW!

So he can still play a full schedule on LIV, earn money, AND recover from injury / improve his game . No wonder he’s so happy.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

So he can still play a full schedule on LIV, earn money, AND recover from injury / improve his game . No wonder he’s so happy.

Good for him.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm seriously trying to understand your point

You don't have one, unless you can prove that any golfer in the history of the PGAT that has been injured, has never been able to recover whilst remaining a member of the PGAT.

He could have equally have given golf up entirely for a year or 2, and recovered from injury.

 

[WGCRider]

It also shows the PGAT was damaging his game,

I think you may be onto something. Look at Tiger Woods - played almost his whole life on the PGA tour and now can barely walk!

 

[Bdill93]

The thread that keeps on giving...

 

[Orikoru]

The thread that keeps on giving...

Giving us headaches maybe.

 

[SteveW86]

I keep coming back to reply to some points, but when the thread is made up of the same circular argument is is very hard to stay engaged.