LIV Golf

[D-S]

Absolutely. But how does that get them out of the position they find themselves in?

It doesn’t of course, they are in an invidious position foisted upon them by a regime that will pay anything to sportswash themselves but has been allowed to happen by a management that has lied to them and sold them down the river - just sad really.

 

[Backsticks]

Nobody really cares where the money comes from. That was always a spurious argument used to position either side. Newcastle's stadium wasnt empty this year, boycotted by fans. The money is yours anyway - you gave it to the Saudis in the first place for oil for your cars, industry, and lifestyle. Players didnt go to LIV because is was a precarious startup with a very poor offering. The players saw that as clearly as we did. So it only suited the precarious players really - the no longer making it on tour;l past it players back to the hard grind of travel, uncertainty, and lower paycheques, unknowns, the elderly, etc. Of course, there was The Five. But you dont build a golf tour on only 5 top rank golfers.
I do wonder if LIV had been less of a tricked up circus gimmick, would it have stood a better chance. I think it is that misfire that has Greg and co packing their bags.

 

[Bdill93]

Yes, curious how LIV supporters for its golf offering have morphed into anti-PGAT and pro PIFers !

I like literally all golf LIV for me, more than anything, has always been enjoying the offer of being guaranteed to see the big names at a tournament in the UK. Because I love live sport!

Not a fan of PIF but what’s little old me going to do about it everyone on this forum probably funds them in more ways than one without even knowing.

 

[Reemul]

Nobody really cares where the money comes from. That was always a spurious argument used to position either side. Newcastle's stadium wasnt empty this year, boycotted by fans. The money is yours anyway - you gave it to the Saudis in the first place for oil for your cars, industry, and lifestyle. Players didnt go to LIV because is was a precarious startup with a very poor offering. The players saw that as clearly as we did. So it only suited the precarious players really - the no longer making it on tour;l past it players back to the hard grind of travel, uncertainty, and lower paycheques, unknowns, the elderly, etc. Of course, there was The Five. But you dont build a golf tour on only 5 top rank golfers.
I do wonder if LIV had been less of a tricked up circus gimmick, would it have stood a better chance. I think it is that misfire that has Greg and co packing their bags.

If this is true let everyone drop the hand wringing, whining and bitching from the non Liv / Pif shut up and let it play out, as you say no one has the high ground but no can’t do that can we as some people on here think their poor doesn’t smell

 

[Backsticks]

Have you been reading this thread? Lots of people care where the money comes from.

Globally, I think people dont. It is used to make a case, rather than form the case. Its convenient mud to sling, but doesnt really back up as an argument. I dont follow the game in detail. But was Newcastle stadium empty this season and lifelong supporters boycotting the team in droves ? I truly dont know. But would guess its more a case of they are all happy to be on the up and back in the big time.

 

[Backsticks]

You can say "not enough people care" but you can't say "nobody cares" since, clearly lots of us do. Please don't project your own ambivalence onto others.

In the end, it is nobody or almost. Up that, OK, they care, but its really just wishing it werent so, and handwringing. But not caring that much when it comes to it. Once the takeover happens, fans carry on. Golfers carry on. People are not going to stop watching PGAT in any measurable numbers because of this deal.

 

[RichA]

In the end, it is nobody or almost. Up that, OK, they care, but its really just wishing it werent so, and handwringing. But not caring that much when it comes to it. Once the takeover happens, fans carry on. Golfers carry on. People are not going to stop watching PGAT in any measurable numbers because of this deal.

You think you know everything, but you don't speak for all of us.

 

[BrianM]

@Backsticks, whatever you are smoking, please stop

 

[Swango1980]

You think you know everything, but you don't speak for all of us.

In fairness, people moan all the time. As an example, there was one particularly vocal chap in here who hated where the money comes from for LIV, and gave the example how his Formula 1 mad family apparently boycott watching the F1 races in the Middle East out of principle. And the key reason he wouldn't watch LIV. Of course, that was conveniently forgotten when the World Cup was in Qatar for him. When quizzed, turns out he watched it because he likes the World Cup.

So, morality, sportswashing does appear to be a convenient and easy argument to make when your not interested in watching the event in question anyway. However, I don't think it reduced the overall popularity of the Race to Dubai on DP World Tour. Once the Qatar World Cup started it became an insignificant issue within a few days. Boxing in the Middle East seems to get good viewing figures and F1 does OK, even if the tracks are pretty soulless.

Not sure why people think that accepting money equals validating human rights atrocities anyway? It doesn't, and it actually highlights them. It forces the Saudi Arabian regime to pay WAY over the odds just to do business. To me, it feels like they are giving us loads of the money back we gave them for oil, whilst we trash their human rights. Win win.

As individuals the people may well not watch sport with Middle Eastern investment. But, when speaking generally, I would also agree that it won't matter, as most fans who watch the PGAT will continue to do so, viewing numbers probably won't plummet. Other sports seem to indicate that to be the case. The bigger concern might be to do with sponsors, in the short term anyway. Is some pull out, will the PIF money more than make up for it?

 

[D-S]

Nobody really cares where the money comes from. That was always a spurious argument used to position either side. Newcastle's stadium wasnt empty this year, boycotted by fans. The money is yours anyway - you gave it to the Saudis in the first place for oil for your cars, industry, and lifestyle. Players didnt go to LIV because is was a precarious startup with a very poor offering. The players saw that as clearly as we did. So it only suited the precarious players really - the no longer making it on tour;l past it players back to the hard grind of travel, uncertainty, and lower paycheques, unknowns, the elderly, etc. Of course, there was The Five. But you dont build a golf tour on only 5 top rank golfers.
I do wonder if LIV had been less of a tricked up circus gimmick, would it have stood a better chance. I think it is that misfire that has Greg and co packing their bags.

If, as you say, no one cares where the money comes from and if, as you say, the LIV format was automatically doomed to failure and the Saudis now only have a minority share and no control then surely the fault for this whole mess lies with PGA tournament management.
If they are happy now to take a cash injection from Saudi now, then why on earth didn’t they make this merger/takeover offer 12 months ago and avoided this entire split, player unrest, sponsor problems etc. etc.
They could have avoided this whole problem if they hadn’t chosen to fight, using every tool in their armoury, an enemy who suddenly is a friend and good for golf.

 

[Mel Smooth]

It's laughable that Backsticks is now claiming that nobody cares where the money came from, when Monahan and the PGAT were purposefully using that as a reason to derail LIV - we all saw him make that statement about 911, and asking players who had left, or were considering leaving "Have you ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour"

We can discuss the Saudis all day long, and what is right and wrong with their society, but one thing is clear. Using something that killed thousands of people and shook the entire planet as a reason to discredit a competitor, and golfers on a personal level, for financial gain, only to then stick your nose in the trough of those that you abhorred less than 12 months ago, is disgusting.
Monahan is a bad man, he's hung LIV players out to dry, he's hung his own PGAT players out to dry, and he's hung the 911 support group out to dry.

https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/142sxtj

 

[r0wly86]

you could literally see sportswashing happening on this thread.

When it started there was a lot of talk about the politics of it and the Saudi regime. Then it became, let's put the politics aside and discuss the golf.

and for the record, I absolutely care that the money comes from the Saudi government

 

[simsini]

I'm a volunteer for Centurion Club next month. Can't wait.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I see Martin Kaymer confirming his status as a LIV POS. Gloating that those players with objections to the Saudi “blood money” (his phrase) now have to either take it themselves or effectively end their careers.

Another one showing his true colours!

 

[Neilds]

Quick question for all those who say players are greedy for wanting to be 'compensated' for their loyalty:
Have you ever complained that your insurance renewal is more than that of a new customer? Are you being greedy for wanting your loyalty to be rewarded with cheaper insurance?

 

[SteveJay]

In fairness, people moan all the time. As an example, there was one particularly vocal chap in here who hated where the money comes from for LIV, and gave the example how his Formula 1 mad family apparently boycott watching the F1 races in the Middle East out of principle. And the key reason he wouldn't watch LIV. Of course, that was conveniently forgotten when the World Cup was in Qatar for him. When quizzed, turns out he watched it because he likes the World Cup.

So, morality, sportswashing does appear to be a convenient and easy argument to make when your not interested in watching the event in question anyway. However, I don't think it reduced the overall popularity of the Race to Dubai on DP World Tour. Once the Qatar World Cup started it became an insignificant issue within a few days. Boxing in the Middle East seems to get good viewing figures and F1 does OK, even if the tracks are pretty soulless.

Not sure why people think that accepting money equals validating human rights atrocities anyway? It doesn't, and it actually highlights them. It forces the Saudi Arabian regime to pay WAY over the odds just to do business. To me, it feels like they are giving us loads of the money back we gave them for oil, whilst we trash their human rights. Win win.

As individuals the people may well not watch sport with Middle Eastern investment. But, when speaking generally, I would also agree that it won't matter, as most fans who watch the PGAT will continue to do so, viewing numbers probably won't plummet. Other sports seem to indicate that to be the case. The bigger concern might be to do with sponsors, in the short term anyway. Is some pull out, will the PIF money more than make up for it?

Might well be the case, but the sentiment in the US is very different from this forum. I follow a couple US golf forums and the majority of posters there are furious about PIF's involvement and loads are saying they won't watch the PGA tour any longer. I guess 9/11 and the US patriotism makes it different for many US citizens.

 

[pokerjoke]

I see Martin Kaymer confirming his status as a LIV POS. Gloating that those players with objections to the Saudi “blood money” (his phrase) now have to either take it themselves or effectively end their careers.

I believe he suggested going on the Japanese tour.
Imo he spot on,I’ve said it myself.
Hypocrites of the highest order imo.

 

[pokerjoke]

I'm a volunteer for Centurion Club next month. Can't wait.

Don’t rugby tackle someone with a champagne bottle being sprayed lol

 

[pokerjoke]

It's laughable that Backsticks is now claiming that nobody cares where the money came from, when Monahan and the PGAT were purposefully using that as a reason to derail LIV - we all saw him make that statement about 911, and asking players who had left, or were considering leaving "Have you ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour"

We can discuss the Saudis all day long, and what is right and wrong with their society, but one thing is clear. Using something that killed thousands of people and shook the entire planet as a reason to discredit a competitor, and golfers on a personal level, for financial gain, only to then stick your nose in the trough of those that you abhorred less than 12 months ago, is disgusting.
Monahan is a bad man, he's hung LIV players out to dry, he's hung his own PGAT players out to dry, and he's hung the 911 support group out to dry.

https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/142sxtj

Rory backs him though

 

[Swango1980]

Might well be the case, but the sentiment in the US is very different from this forum. I follow a couple US golf forums and the majority of posters there are furious about PIF's involvement and loads are saying they won't watch the PGA tour any longer. I guess 9/11 and the US patriotism makes it different for many US citizens.

The proof will be in the pudding, rather than taking what people say in forums as any guide. I'd imagine those that wish to express their anger take to forums to tell everyone else. They make that effort. For those that truly do not care, or only care slightly, they are not going to go onto forums and tell everyone else. Why bother?

9/11 and internal human rights issues are easy things to use when backing up an argument when you don't like something. Most of the same people are completely unaware of humans rights atrocities that occur in other areas of the world that we get no coverage of. And if there is a bit of coverage, won't pay too much attention to it.

I honestly don't think the source of money will have any significant impact on golf fans watching the PGAT. There may be a few who refuse to watch any sport linked to the Middle east in principle, but hardly many. There will be a lot of noise right now, and that may make sponsors nervous. But that noise will probably die down to a whimper once things settle down, and people know what the merger will look like. The bigger problem for the PGAT may be Jay Monahan, as I don't think he will ever come across as a trustworthy person in the future, no matter what he does.