LIV Golf

[IanM]

Whatever happened to wanting to win golf tournaments .

...that's limited to four weeks a year, but five in a Ryder Cup Year!

 

[Backsticks]

Now players want millions for showing loyalty.

Which players have said that ?

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Yes it's OK now the dirty money is going into the PGAT...

The hypocrisy across so many levels around the money is flabbergasting.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

The PIF are in control, you know those guys responsible for 9/11 and beheadings we were told before by Jay..

The PGA Tours actions, behaviour and now their comtempable hypocrisy is an absolute disgrace and needs calling out with the same rage and venom as Liv received.

Please tell me I'm wrong that PGAT doing business with the PIF is different to Liv so they should not be called out in the same way ?

The PGAT should be ashamed of themselves.....

 

[PJ87]

Which players have said that ?

McIlroy Says Loyal PGA Tour Players Should Be Compensated

Rory McIlroy acknowledges how the PGA Tour/PIF merger may benefit the game - but feels some players are due compensation

www.golfmonthly.com

PGA Tour Pro Wants To Be 'Rewarded For My Decision To Stay Loyal'

Chesson Hadley's post-round interview summed up the lack of detail that the players know about the new PGA Tour-PIF deal

www.golfmonthly.com

 

[Backsticks]

Yes it's OK now the dirty money is going into the PGAT...

The hypocrisy across so many levels around the money is flabbergasting.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

The PIF are in control, you know those guys responsible for 9/11 and beheadings we were told before by Jay..

The PGA Tours actions, behaviour and now their comtempable hypocrisy is an absolute disgrace and needs calling out with the same rage and venom as Liv received.

Please tell me I'm wrong that PGAT doing business with the PIF is different to Liv so they should not be called out in the same way ?

The PGAT should be ashamed of themselves.....

No hypocrisy. I'm fine with Saudi money going to the PGAT. No, the PGAT doing business with the PIF is the same as LIV doing business with PIF. No problem with that either. The difference for me was LIV was crap. The PGAT seriously good golf entertainment since decades.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY..

The Saudi's bought professional golf..

Going to be very interesting to see if this merger goes through and how it is going to play out..

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Quote today from JM

"We cannot compete with a foreign government with unlimited money. This was the time. We waited to be in the strongest possible position to get this deal in place."

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY..

 

[PJ87]

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY..

The Saudi's bought professional golf..

Going to be very interesting to see if this merger goes through and how it is going to play out..

I don't see how it can't go through really, only because what 24 months ago Liv didn't exist

The pga and dp world did

So why can't they merge? It's just what it was 24 months ago no?

 

[RichA]

Yes, its justified. We the common people decide that they are worth it, and so pay them 7 and 8 figure sums. As we do for movie stars doing a bit of make believe, singers who write borderline musically worthless 4 minute ditties but simple enough for the masses to consume and enjoy. We choose to pay them those huge sums.

Don't think so. The sponsors decide and it's apparently looking like they no longer think golfers are worth it, hence this overall situation where a mega rich country has decided it's worth an unsustainable loss to meet their ends.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I don't see how it can't go through really, only because what 24 months ago Liv didn't exist

The pga and dp world did

So why can't they merge? It's just what it was 24 months ago no?

As I said, it has to…

 

[Backsticks]

The money is irrelevant to the spectator. LIV are trying to present it as a draw, but it is only an indication of what they reckon it will take to attract top golfers. And it seems it hasnt even done that. Most spectators dont know nor care what the prize money is.
In short, it seems like LIV will offer a lower quality field, fewer golfers, playing fewer holes.
Beats me how anyone can try to dress this up as a game changer fans have been looking for from pro golf.

I'm not sure about that. I think the questionable moral issue is one that has been just put in there to muddy the water. We all buy Saudi oil. Its impossible to separate your life from lots of unpleasant tangles, whether political, environmental, child labour, and so on. Is everyone in Newcastle going to stop going to games now ?

The real issue here is that the PGA Tour is being challenged. If everyone jumped lock stock and barrel to LIV, and they were playing proper 4 round tournament golf without any of the pathetic attempts to 'refresh' golf or bring it added razzmatazz, I would be fine with it, and simply keep tuning in and following it. But its the Mickey Mouse modifications which add up to nothing, and a rift which means we can end up with a split golfing world boxing style, that makes it messy. I dont care who gets the money at the end of the day as an organisation. I dont care what the players are paid - whatever it is, if it comes from sponsors, TV rights, and , merchandising, etc. I dont even know what they get for a win these days. The OWGR are the rankings that matter. The Fedex even lists itself as some sort of differential, which I presume is based on money at the root of it, but I dont know how it works. If DJ and co are excluded from the proper tourneys now, whatever he wins on LIV will count for nothing, and whatever the rest win on the PGA will be devalued. Who is the best any more ? Who knows.
Finger crossed it falls flat on its face. The indicators are that other than have plenty of $, LIV doesnt know what it is doing.

What is 'it' that appeals ?

54 holes ? Big deal. Nobody is obliged to watch 4 days anyway. Most drop in and out as suits
Team ? That is a nothing.
Guaranteed big money for the players ? Thats a nothing for spectators.
Bigger money ? Thats a nothing for spectators.
Shotgunstart ? Yes, that could provide some interest.
Saudi involvement ? Of interest only to those keen on sportswashing a very dodgy and backwards regime.
Missing most if yhe worlds best players ? That has to be a negative in everyones book.

Why? The teams are meaningless. Artificial. With no raison d'etre, affiliation to any region, country, city, history, club. Its one of the more ludicrous 'innovations' in this whole venture and shows how out of touch those behind it are.

Presumably they want people to watch it though, and that requires some sporting credibility. Prize money in itself, no matter how big, doesnt bring that.
Take Matt Fitzpatrick for example. Doing well, but hasnt really hit the big time. If he moved, and won a handful of tournaments beating Phil, Garrigus, Bland and the likes, he would be richer, but it would have no credibility. No one would care to watch him do it, and it would be in the same class as wins in 'sports' such as red bull gimmick sports or wrestling.
Golf already has an established second division in the DP tour. There is no opening in the market.

Consider cycling. There are teams, but even in a sport where working as a team has a genuine influence on how a rider can do, nobody cares about the teams, or supports them. Its still all about the individual. With golf there isnt even a player cooperation dynamic for the good of theteam. Even F1 has some element of that. But in golf it is irrelevant and simply a major misjudgement. It sounds like an idea from corporate suits who dont actually know anything about sport.
They may as well just pick a random group of players every week, and give them a bonus. Fans, even if they are watching the individual element, wont give a monkeys. Its a nothing.

Some players may have indeed issues with the running of, and financial structure and distribution of money on the PGA Tour. But that is of zero relevance to spectators. Spectators, or Golf in its overall sense, are not looking for a solution, that LIV purports to solve

TheBigDraw, my early posts here from over a year ago. Entirely consistent and no shifting of the goalposts. The criticisms clear from the start. LIV never resolved the problems.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Players got payed millions to leave for Liv
Now players want millions for showing loyalty.
Players who went to Liv for pure greed
Players that stayed want millions for loyalty (pure greed).
Whatever happened to wanting to win golf tournaments .

Because once the PIF gets involved it becomes ALL ABOUT THE MONEY !!

Saudi's bought pro golf..

 

[Backsticks]

Because once the PIF gets involved it becomes ALL ABOUT THE MONEY !!

Saudi's bought pro golf..

To be fair to the players, they didnt agitate, negotiate, or sign the deal. It was done to them whether they liked it or not, without any consultation WHATSOEVER, which I still find extraordinary. The players did not sell themselves.

 

[Swango1980]

Because once the PIF gets involved it becomes ALL ABOUT THE MONEY !!

Saudi's bought pro golf..

Are you having a debate with someone, as I assumed everyone on this forum agreed with you?

I'm assuming everybody recognised the PGAT have come to a deal with PIF because of the money. Jay Monahan and his team have made that decision because of the money.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

They are already starting to argue over the money.

Rory saying players who turned down Liv should get some money.

Chesson Hadley said he wants rewarding for staying loyal to the PGAT and he wasn't even made an offer for gods sake.

Their eyes have gone from to $$

Liv was never about anything else as they had no history.

But the PGAT was all about history and meritocracy yet you can see the start of that disappearing already as they all want their piece of the beheading 9/11 attacks money pie. (JMs words not mine)

Saudi's bought pro golf..

 

[Swango1980]

They are already starting to argue over the money.

Rory saying players who turned down Liv should get some money.

Chesson Hadley said he wants rewarding for staying loyal to the PGAT and he wasn't even made an offer for gods sake.

Their eyes have gone from to $$

Liv was never about anything else as they had no history.

But the PGAT was all about history and meritocracy yet you can see the start of that disappearing already as they all want their piece of the beheading 9/11 attacks money pie. (JMs words not mine)

Saudi's bought pro golf..

Jay Monahan was shown to be one of the biggest hypocrites in sport. Again, I think we all agree on that?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They are already starting to argue over the money.

Rory saying players who turned down Liv should get some money.

Chesson Hadley said he wants rewarding for staying loyal to the PGAT and he wasn't even made an offer for gods sake.

Their eyes have gone from to $$

Liv was never about anything else as they had no history.

But the PGAT was all about history and meritocracy yet you can see the start of that disappearing already as they all want their piece of the beheading 9/11 attacks money pie. (JMs words not mine)

Saudi's bought pro golf..

Who are you arguing against

I can’t recall anyone being fully behind the PGAT and certainly not now

We all know that they have gone for the money

Saudi have a big foot in the door now in golf- Saudi will either stay minority or raise that

 

[Backsticks]

Jay Monahan was shown to be one of the biggest hypocrites in sport. Again, I think we all agree on that?

Yes and no. Thats business and negotiation. You use whatever argument suits your case at the time. Its a tough station to be able to carry it off, as it does go against our normal instinct for honesty and consistency. Is a barrister defending a murderer hypocritical when he knows his client is guilty ? I would say that Monahan himself, or people of his CEO level has no issue with what we see as a u turn. They know thats what you have to do. When Prime Minister Harold Macmillan was asked what was the greatest challenge for a statesman, he replied: 'Events, dear boy, events'. You just have to adapt to the changing circumstances whatever happened before.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes and no. Thats business and negotiation. You use whatever argument suits your case at the time. Its a tough station to be able to carry it off, as it does go against our normal instinct for honesty and consistency. Is a barrister defending a murderer hypocritical when he knows his client is guilty ? I would say that Monahan himself, or people of his CEO level has no issue with what we see as a u turn. They know thats what you have to do. When Prime Minister Harold Macmillan was asked what was the greatest challenge for a statesman, he replied: 'Events, dear boy, events'. You just have to adapt to the changing circumstances whatever happened before.

From a business perspective, it is difficult to argue against what he has done. He us a better businessman than me. Business is ultimately all about money in most cases anyway.

However, when LIV began, he was unwise to fo down the road of the moral argument. It was cheap, and he should have known it could easily come round and bite him on the backside.

It may well be a good business decision, but his credibility was shot to pieces

 

[Mel Smooth]

Don’t shoot the messenger…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1667629405395472387