LIV Golf

[Beezerk]

I am a bit confiused now. LIV was bad because of Saudi money, now people are arguing that it was just LIV that was bad and are glad it is gone/going/a minor partner but are OK with PIF now funding the PGA Tour, DP Tour etc. Basically the whole of golf has pretty much become LIV now from a funding perspective. Not sure how anyone who based their opposition to LIV based on the source of the funding can then watch, follow or support professional golf in general now.

To be honest, it does not impact me directly as I never really found golf a great watch for 3 1/2 days out of 4 but I will be interested to see how people justify their ongoing support of professional golf if their opposition to LIV was based on the quite understandable moral argument.

I am sure, in the long term LIV will disappear but the Saudis now have a big chunk of the whole of professional golf and I am sure that they would rather have that over LIV.

By the looks of it LIV was always going to be just a temporary thing so PIF could get their hands on the PGAT. LIV is dead, well yes but it served its purpose.

 

[Backsticks]

How come people are separating LIV and PIF now?
Without PIF there is no LIV - PIF set up LIV and bankrolled it didn’t they? It’s not as if LIV was some sort of struggling entity that existed before and then was bought by Saudi. It was their vehicle that seemingly has led to their control over , or at least have significant influence on, the top of Professional golf outside the Majors.

They arent separate. But PIF has bought into two far superior established products, and investment will be channelled to its premier tour - the PGAT. So LIV is the third child, whose raison d'etre as a top tour challenger/usurper to the PGAT has evaporated. It seems to have been given a stay of execution to justify its purpose and commercial interest. But it has a tough challenge given that it failed while the sole beneficiary of PIF investment, and now the PIF has better options. Its perfectly possible it was just diplomacy to not kill it at a stroke on Tuesday, even if that is a fait accompli.

 

[PJ87]

By the looks of it LIV was always going to be just a temporary thing so PIF could get their hands on the PGAT. LIV is dead, well yes but it served its purpose.

The Rick Shiels Golf Show - A NEW GOLF TOUR? - WORLD EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

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podcasts.google.com

I remember this podcast with shiels ages ago that just frittered away when Liv was formed

From memory this could be what the merger ends up as

 

[GB72]

By the looks of it LIV was always going to be just a temporary thing so PIF could get their hands on the PGAT. LIV is dead, well yes but it served its purpose.

Totally agree, the goal was always to give PIF a significant stake in golf. Whether the original intention or not, LIV made a great Trojan Horse and their target has been achieved. Whether LIV exists in the medium term is pretty much irrelevant, sort of the concellation goal in a 3-1 defeat. Not sure how whether LIV exists or not is the victory that some want to claim it to be. Think the term used by Rory 'the sacrificial lamb' was better applied to LIV, willingly given up to achieve the end game probably much quicker than PIF would have expected.

 

[Mel Smooth]

There’s some slow learners on here, the Saudis will want to showcase their “assets” globally, they’ll want them playing in SA, Asia, Europe - wherever they can utilise them to meet their business needs.

LIV may well be over as we know it, but if it is, it means the PGAT will be transformed beyond recognition to fit the requirements of its new owners.

Global team golf in some form will very much form part of golfs future.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I am a bit confiused now. LIV was bad because of Saudi money, now people are arguing that it was just LIV that was bad and are glad it is gone/going/a minor partner but are OK with PIF now funding the PGA Tour, DP Tour etc. Basically the whole of golf has pretty much become LIV now from a funding perspective. Not sure how anyone who based their opposition to LIV based on the source of the funding can then watch, follow or support professional golf in general now.

To be honest, it does not impact me directly as I never really found golf a great watch for 3 1/2 days out of 4 but I will be interested to see how people justify their ongoing support of professional golf if their opposition to LIV was based on the quite understandable moral argument.

I am sure, in the long term LIV will disappear but the Saudis now have a big chunk of the whole of professional golf and I am sure that they would rather have that over LIV.

I don't think you're confused at all, but believe you're sitting on a "gotcha" moment and gong in the same direction of those who are "just asking questions". It's really not that hard. It's abhorrent that a nation, and not just any nation, is slowly but surely buying up the world of sports, whether that be boxing, football clubs or in this case golf, with the intent to slowly but surely reposition the perception of them in peoples mind.

If I want to see the greatest players in the world I now don't have a choice but to inadvertently "support" them on their mission. There's nothing to be glad about this, other than the simple fact that the best players will be playing against each other again.

 

[D-S]

They arent separate. But PIF has bought into two far superior established products, and investment will be channelled to its premier tour - the PGAT. So LIV is the third child, whose raison d'etre as a top tour challenger/usurper to the PGAT has evaporated. It seems to have been given a stay of execution to justify its purpose and commercial interest. But it has a tough challenge given that it failed while the sole beneficiary of PIF investment, and now the PIF has better options. Its perfectly possible it was just diplomacy to not kill it at a stroke on Tuesday, even if that is a fait accompli.

How can you hate LIV and not hate the founder and sponsor of it?
LIV didn’t fail as it served exactly its purpose which was to give its founder and sponsor a way of buying into and subsequently controlling Professional golf - that wasn’t going to happen without such a disrupter.
In that sense LIV was a rip roaring, perhaps short lived, success story

 

[AussieKB]

I worked for a Bank in OZ that merged with another Bank......
it was not a merger but a takeover and everyone new it.....

think this is what is happening now.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

There’s some slow learners on here, the Saudis will want to showcase their “assets” globally, they’ll want them playing in SA, Asia, Europe - wherever they can utilise them to meet their business needs.

LIV may well be over as we know it, but if it is, it means the PGAT will be transformed beyond recognition to fit the requirements of its new owners.

Global team golf in some form will very much form part of golfs future.

Which Twitter account told you that?

 

[Bdill93]

Which Twitter account told you that?

The Saudi dude whos name I cant remember said that team events will be part of the future in the interview alongside Monohan. - Think that's the basis anyway!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There’s some slow learners on here, the Saudis will want to showcase their “assets” globally, they’ll want them playing in SA, Asia, Europe - wherever they can utilise them to meet their business needs.

LIV may well be over as we know it, but if it is, it means the PGAT will be transformed beyond recognition to fit the requirements of its new owners.

Global team golf in some form will very much form part of golfs future.

PIF don’t “own” the PGAT

And the DP Tour already plays in those countries - so from the “minority” funding being providing by PIF within the new “commercial” entity they will prob enhance a few events to encourage some of the players to play there - there will also imo prob be some Co sanctioned events in Asia etc

 

[GB72]

I don't think you're confused at all, but believe you're sitting on a "gotcha" moment and gong in the same direction of those who are "just asking questions". It's really not that hard. It's abhorrent that a nation, and not just any nation, is slowly but surely buying up the world of sports, whether that be boxing, football clubs or in this case golf, with the intent to slowly but surely reposition the perception of them in peoples mind.

If I want to see the greatest players in the world I now don't have a choice but to inadvertently "support" them on their mission. There's nothing to be glad about this, other than the simple fact that the best players will be playing against each other again.

I totally agree with you. My comment was not a 'gotcha' moment as I take not pleasure from what has transpired and totally agree with your abhorrent statement and I suppost that is the point, people cannot justify the ongoing suport of the PGA tour with the argument that it is not LIV or celebrate the fact that LIV may not exist in the future as the outcome is far worse than any civil war with LIV could be in that the PGA have effectively sold themselves out lock stock and barrell. My point, I guess is that you cannot celebrate the end of LIV when, in fact, from a moral standpoint, all of golf has become LIV.

 

[Orikoru]

How come people are separating LIV and PIF now?
Without PIF there is no LIV - PIF set up LIV and bankrolled it didn’t they? It’s not as if LIV was some sort of struggling entity that existed before and then was bought by Saudi. It was their vehicle that seemingly has led to their control over , or at least have significant influence on, the top of Professional golf outside the Majors.

I thought the same. People keep saying don't conflate them or whatever - what's the difference in this context?? I'd never even heard of 'PIF' before Tuesday. It makes no difference, they're still combining the two golf entities as we know them, whatever you call it.

 

[Bdill93]

Hear me out... My mind is wondering...

Do we know that the PGAT continues as is? We only actually know that the head of PIF is getting a seat at their table and Monohan a seat at the new ventures table.

What's to stop all events next year being run under the new venture and then donating some of the profits to the PGAT charity to pass down to grassroots golf etc?

Just spitballing a thought here

 

[Mel Smooth]

Well worth a read - might take 5 minutes of your time, but might help you stop posting nonsense.. Backsticks, I’m looking at you….

What Now Becomes of LIV Golf? Ask Yasir Al-Rumayyan

The new chairman of the board controls the money so he controls the future—not just of LIV but the entire sport

firepitcollective.com

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Hear me out... My mind is wondering...

Do we know that the PGAT continues as is? We only actually know that the head of PIF is getting a seat at their table and Monohan a seat at the new ventures table.

What's to stop all events next year being run under the new venture and then donating some of the profits to the PGAT charity to pass down to grassroots golf etc?

Just spitballing a thought here

To paraphrase an old saying "Christ knows". Certainly no one in here!

 

[Mel Smooth]

The Saudi dude whos name I cant remember said that team events will be part of the future in the interview alongside Monohan. - Think that's the basis anyway!

Al-Rumayyan - Jay Monahons boss, for clarity, was the guy that said it.

 

[BrianM]

Not necessarily, you probably have to be there to understand the context. The fact that they were friendly after the meeting suggests a bit of light-hearted banter

I frequently take the mick out of the guys I play golf with, for example mocking one for being the worst chipper in history. And they jokingly respond "f... off" afterwards. I'm sure most of us do the same with the guys in our groups, and they do it to us as well.

You don’t ever use a tampon for this mick taking banter do you

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I totally agree with you. My comment was not a 'gotcha' moment as I take not pleasure from what has transpired and totally agree with your abhorrent statement and I suppost that is the point, people cannot justify the ongoing suport of the PGA tour with the argument that it is not LIV or celebrate the fact that LIV may not exist in the future as the outcome is far worse than any civil war with LIV could be in that the PGA have effectively sold themselves out lock stock and barrell. My point, I guess is that you cannot celebrate the end of LIV when, in fact, from a moral standpoint, all of golf has become LIV.

Ok, I’m with you then and we seem to agree.

As said, personally I find the whole thing just sad, but will I never again watch professional golf? Nope. Does that make me a hypocrite? Perhaps. If there was something else on offer then I’d happily go with that instead.

 

[Bdill93]

To paraphrase an old saying "Christ knows". Certainly no one in here!

Hahahaha so true!