LIV Golf

[Swango1980]

I'm not going to walk to close to the person in front of me, there are so many people back peddling I don't want to get run over.

Indeed. I think those who have championed the LIV format may well have to backpeddle the most, as that looks like it will die a death.

LIV golfers are loving it now, but who knows how they will be integrated back to PGAT? Maybe not so happy then. Especially the poorer quality LIV players, will they end up lost at sea?

Was good to see McIlroy speak yesterday. Gave a very balanced responds between showing his shock, admitting it seemed hypocritical but willing to see the end of litigation and money to the PGAT could be positive. And was absolutely crystal clear that he hates LIV. Good to see it when players give honest answers

Jay Monohan however, don't walk behind him. He'll reverse over you at 200mph

 

[Mel Smooth]

Hardly. We've heard from Monahan and Pelley, just about every journalist/pundit/podcaster out there, plus a handful of PGA Tour pros and few ex-players (e.g. Nicklaus); and then there are members of the public giving their opinions (like on here).

There are a lot who expressed clear anti-LIV/pro-PGAT views previously who are now presenting a distortion of their previous statements or rowing back completely, often without any acknowledgement (or even denial) of those previous contradictory comments while clutching to whatever tiny thread of consistency they can find - e.g. "I still hate LIV".

The biggest elephant in the room is the source of the money - plenty of people have steadfastly used it as a reason to completely blackball LIV - let's see if they are prepared to do the same to the tours that they have been supportive of over the last 12 months or more...

 

[Backsticks]

The biggest elephant in the room is the source of the money - plenty of people have steadfastly used it as a reason to completely blackball LIV - let's see if they are prepared to do the same to the tours that they have been supportive of over the last 12 months or more...

It was an argument put up by some. And some will seem hypocritical to those who want to criticise them. But they will get on with it. The bottom line is the PGAT is back together, PGAT and ET have come out of the flux stronger, and with a big cash injection. The threat to the PGAT haemoraging more players is gone at a stroke.

 

[ColchesterFC]

A thought that occurred to me last night...... is there any chance that this announcement might encourage a few more of the top golfers to go over to play LIV for the remainder of this year knowing that they can earn massive amounts of money and still return to play PGA Tour next year? And what would happen if this is all an elaborate bluff by PIF/LIV to get some more of the top golfers to go over to them and then in a couple of months time they decide not to go ahead with the merger?

 

[sweaty sock]

Dont believe there can be any sanctions on the liv guys, they will finish the season and reappear on jan 1st. Unless Pelley is deliberately trying to undermine his tour...

Now that the pga is for profit, theres every chance the 'loyal' golfers or more likely the valuable golfers, will get an equity stake, thus tying them to the success of the PIF/PGA tour

 

[wjemather]

Indeed. I think those who have championed the LIV format may well have to backpeddle the most, as that looks like it will die a death.

LIV golfers are loving it now, but who knows how they will be integrated back to PGAT? Maybe not so happy then. Especially the poorer quality LIV players, will they end up lost at sea?

Was good to see McIlroy speak yesterday. Gave a very balanced responds between showing his shock, admitting it seemed hypocritical but willing to see the end of litigation and money to the PGAT could be positive. And was absolutely crystal clear that he hates LIV. Good to see it when players give honest answers

Jay Monohan however, don't walk behind him. He'll reverse over you at 200mph

It may well do, or it could evolve as planned, or it could expand (now it has less restricted access to players and broadcasters), or it could change in other ways. Either way there is really no evidence to justify crowing about it's demise, as some seem all too willing to do - because it's what they want to happen.

All 3 tours face a period of working out how they fit together in the schedule. Pelley has already confirmed the planned 2024 DPWT schedule announcement will be postponed - no doubt if LIV did that, there would be people gleefully celebrating it's demise.

 

[wjemather]

Dont believe there can be any sanctions on the liv guys, they will finish the season and reappear on jan 1st. Unless Pelley is deliberately trying to undermine his tour...

Now that the pga is for profit, theres every chance the 'loyal' golfers or more likely the valuable golfers, will get an equity stake, thus tying them to the success of the PIF/PGA tour

The PGA Tour remains non-profit. The new umbrella company is for-profit.

 

[PJ87]

A thought that occurred to me last night...... is there any chance that this announcement might encourage a few more of the top golfers to go over to play LIV for the remainder of this year knowing that they can earn massive amounts of money and still return to play PGA Tour next year? And what would happen if this is all an elaborate bluff by PIF/LIV to get some more of the top golfers to go over to them and then in a couple of months time they decide not to go ahead with the merger?

Would the offers be there anymore? Don't need anymore players now ..

Those offers to buy players are gone they bought the league instead

 

[Deleted member 25172]

He might be firm on his view of Liv
But he won’t be firm when in the future he will be excepting Saudi money.
His moral standing will go out the window.
You talk about multi millionaires using their influence,no different to Rory then.
Yes he looks hurt and deflated,but the money he excepts off the tour now and the 100s of millions he will except in the future will soften the blow,soften the blow enough to except pay over his moral standing.
He basically said if you can’t beat them join them.
Up there along side Monaghan in the hypocrite stakes.

Care to share a reasonable alternative for what he is to do, besides putting his clubs in the attic and walk away from professional golf?

 

[WGCRider]

I don’t know the answer to this but some folks here seem like they could help. To my understanding for those joining LIV initially it wasn’t as case of here is a cheque for £100m now can play in shorts. It was structured such that some the £100m is in effect an upfront payment for future winnings, some was the notional value of a stake in the team, some was just cash etc. Is this correct?

 

[Swango1980]

It may well do, or it could evolve as planned, or it could expand (now it has less restricted access to players and broadcasters), or it could change in other ways. Either way there is really no evidence to justify crowing about it's demise, as some seem all too willing to do - because it's what they want to happen.

All 3 tours face a period of working out how they fit together in the schedule. Pelley has already confirmed the planned 2024 DPWT schedule announcement will be postponed - no doubt if LIV did that, there would be people gleefully celebrating it's demise.

True, none of us know exactly what is going to happen.

However, I guess we all have to accept we are all making predictions here. Not even the players know what is going on, so no chance we can be definitive.

A few days ago, it was still LIV versus PGAT. LIV fans continually told us how amazing the format is, rumours of the next big player to be snapped from PGAT, and then tried to throw mud at the PGAT end chance they got. All LIV golf did was weaken the world's premier golf tour, cause endless rifts and litigation, and for what? Huge wealth to a few players, team golf that few care bout and litigation?

I cannot see for a second that the PGA will entertain keeping the LIV format going, at best they'll just phase it out. Perhaps the format of PGA Tour will adapt, and take a more measured approach at implementing certain things. At least they have people that know a bit about golf and more likely to come up with good ideas, rather than having Norman and his cowboys just randomly coming up with anything that will disrupt the game. Desperately trying to squeeze in as many USPs as possible, pretend that is why they are attracting players rather than admitting it is the huge sums of money is the real reason.

Of course, if I'm wrong, and we just end up with a LIV Golf style format, then I'll just not bother watching it. Not out of protest, I just don't enjoy it as I've said.

 

[Bdill93]

I don’t know the answer to this but some folks here seem like they could help. To my understanding for those joining LIV initially it wasn’t as case of here is a cheque for £100m now can play in shorts. It was structured such that some the £100m is in effect an upfront payment for future winnings, some was the notional value of a stake in the team, some was just cash etc. Is this correct?

You're right. No one knows how much though as various players got paid differently.

So long as they continue to play the events that PIF/ LIV if it continues wants them to, I'm sure that they wont be made to return any money.

At the end of the day, without those players moving across this probably doesn't happen.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I think the notion that it will be "difficult" for players to come back to the PGA tour is way off the mark.... Why in 6 months time would the sport want another heap of anti golf headlines, I suggest people should swallow their pride and actually do positive things for the sport, rather than drag it through the mud... Again.

 

[Beezerk]

McIlroy is the only one we have heard from yet apart from Monaghan, and a few tweets from LiV players who are clearly delighted to have a prospect of getting back on the PGAT, though I expect their will be either financial penalties on them, ir those who didnt go LIV will get some payout from the PIF investors as if they were sharholders. So a bit early to say that. We need to hear directly from more of them, and see how the detail pans out.

Haha so you’re suggesting PIF are going to financially penalise their own players?

 

[Backsticks]

Haha so you’re suggesting PIF are going to financially penalise their own players?

Yes. Or pay those who stayed. Those returning to the fold are never going to be at at advantage financially compared to those who stayed loyal. Maybe it will be a payout to those who stayed. Maybe there were getout clauses 8n the original LIV contracts. Given that LIV had full control over their players, and they had to earn their fees from winnings, that might still apply. I think Monahan or Pelley said it will take the rest of this year to thrash that out.

 

[D-S]

Yes. Or pay those who stayed. Those returning to the fold are never going to be at at advantage financially compared to those who stayed loyal. Maybe it will be a payout to those who stayed. Maybe there were getout clauses 8n the original LIV contracts. Given that LIV had full control over their players, and they had to earn their fees from winnings, that might still apply. I think Monaghan or Pelley said it will take the rest of this year to thrash that out.

Really? Do you include the extra money that LIV players have earned/received over the past year (and for the rest of this year) in that statement?

 

[Backsticks]

Really? Do you include the extra money that LIV players have earned/received over the past year (and for the rest of this year) in that statement?

Yes, the whole package. If anything, PGAT would probably like the rebels to be financially penalised, but in the interest of peace, it will probably come out neutral. Brooks Koepka and McIlroy will come out of it all even for example.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Would the offers be there anymore? Don't need anymore players now ..

Those offers to buy players are gone they bought the league instead

The hundreds of millions for signing on fees won't be there but there are still large amounts of cash available for the winners and team winners of each event. And I'm sure LIV wouldn't be upset if Rahm and Hovland decided they wanted to play there for the rest of the season. I'm sure a couple of the lesser players would be quickly discarded in that event.

 

[Beezerk]

Yes, the whole package. If anything, PGAT would probably like the rebels to be financially penalised, but in the interest of peace, it will probably come out neutral. Brooks Koepka and McIlroy will come out of it all even for example.

Honestly, get your denial hat off.
PIF run the PGAT now, they aren’t going to penalise the guys who helped set up their own golf tour, if anything they’re going to say well done lads, here’s another few million for helping us win the long game.
Granted the PGAT guys who stayed loyal may get some form of payout but it will be spare change compared to what the LIV rebels got.

 

[D-S]

Yes, the whole package. If anything, PGAT would probably like the rebels to be financially penalised, but in the interest of peace, it will probably come out neutral. Brooks Koepka and McIlroy will come out of it all even for example.

So Rahm and Morikawa will get the same sums that for example DJ and Bryson got?
Basically the entire LIV player budget for the past year and this year will be paid again to all PGAT and DWPT players?
I wonder who the equivalent player to Richard Bland will be and get the $5 million he got?
I assume Eddie Pepperell can look forward to a cheque matching Laurie Canter's $4 million plus earnings?