LIV Golf

[rksquire]

I think this is going to be a flop, with mediocre players at mediocre courses. Presumably they have a TV deal signed, haven't seen who will be carrying it.

$25M purse, $5M more than the Players. Staggering. Who’s going to Play?

This is the test for sure - mediocre players at mediocre courses earning in excess of the best players at the best courses on a tougher schedule..... I can easily see a situation where a number of heads get turned, if not at the start, certainly after a few tournaments. If I'm, for example, Andy Sullivan, Matt Wallace, Jamie Donaldson, Brendt Snedeker, Victor Dubuisson etc. I'm definitely thinking I'd have a great chance at winning millions and not having to beat the best to do it. However, if I'm Lee Westwood or Sergio Garcia seeing these guys win guaranteed prize money, much in excess of my own, even if I make the Cut, then I am going to be thinking "that's not fair". Of course you'd have to park all your moral values and outrage at the funding source & human rights issues, but I suspect many will find a suitable narrative especially as they can see they are guaranteed money at every event both as an individual and as a team.

After the initial eight events, if heads haven't been turned, I'll be quite (pleasantly) surprised.

 

[Orikoru]

If they still haven't announced who's in it, I think it's safe to assume that nobody we've heard of is going to be in it.

 

[IanM]

Let's not go the way of boxing and darts.

I say this as the World Champion of the IanM Golf World Tour!

 

[Ethan]

This is the test for sure - mediocre players at mediocre courses earning in excess of the best players at the best courses on a tougher schedule..... I can easily see a situation where a number of heads get turned, if not at the start, certainly after a few tournaments. If I'm, for example, Andy Sullivan, Matt Wallace, Jamie Donaldson, Brendt Snedeker, Victor Dubuisson etc. I'm definitely thinking I'd have a great chance at winning millions and not having to beat the best to do it. However, if I'm Lee Westwood or Sergio Garcia seeing these guys win guaranteed prize money, much in excess of my own, even if I make the Cut, then I am going to be thinking "that's not fair". Of course you'd have to park all your moral values and outrage at the funding source & human rights issues, but I suspect many will find a suitable narrative especially as they can see they are guaranteed money at every event both as an individual and as a team.

After the initial eight events, if heads haven't been turned, I'll be quite (pleasantly) surprised.

It looks suited to the early 40s player whose game is fading a bit and who may not want to play the Champions Tour (assuming the PGA Tour ban covers that) but wants to retire into after-dinner, business or course design with a soft landing.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Centurion not far away from me. Will I go watch it? Nope. Unfortunately I think @rksquire has hit the nail on the head of how it will play out. Lesser known/ranked players starting it off, and the big boys working together with their PR people on how to spin the narrative so they can jump on it as they don't want to miss out on the money.

Like Shane Lowry probably will put it: He's got to provide for his family...

 

[evemccc]

It looks suited to the early 40s player whose game is fading a bit and who may not want to play the Champions Tour (assuming the PGA Tour ban covers that) but wants to retire into after-dinner, business or course design with a soft landing.

Sounds perfect for me, I want that soft landing ??

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Is it being televised? Have they announced a TV deal?

 

[timd77]

Interesting podcast with Greg Norman here. 3 things that I picked up on.

1, they still don’t have players.
2, low ranked players are likely to be the winners in this.
C, he’s burying his head regarding the murderous Saudi regime.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-bunkered-golf-podcast/id1525619563

 

[Mel Smooth]

Interesting podcast with Greg Norman here. 3 things that I picked up on.

1, they still don’t have players.
2, low ranked players are likely to be the winners in this.
C, he’s burying his head regarding the murderous Saudi regime.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-bunkered-golf-podcast/id1525619563

Why shouldn't he, there's a World Cup in Qatar this year that everybody seems Ok with. If the world of football can turn a blind eye to medieval religous governemnt practices, then there's no reason for Mr Norman to take a political viewpoint over the same.

 

[timd77]

Why shouldn't he, there's a World Cup in Qatar this year that everybody seems Ok with. If the world of football can turn a blind eye to medieval religous governemnt practices, then there's no reason for Mr Norman to take a political viewpoint over the same.

And we all know how Qatar won that bid. And I think everybody’s far from being ok with it unless you’re on the receiving end of a few quid.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Why shouldn't he, there's a World Cup in Qatar this year that everybody seems Ok with. If the world of football can turn a blind eye to medieval religous governemnt practices, then there's no reason for Mr Norman to take a political viewpoint over the same.

For a bit of context. The BBC published a league table of executions by nations earlier this week. Saudi Arabia were 4th, the United States were 5th.

This week a 2008 report from the Central Intelligence Agency's own inspector general was declassified. It describes how one post-9/11 detainee, Ammar al-Baluchi, was used as a "living prop" in a CIA black site to train torturers how to bounce detainees off walls. It happened with such vigour and regularity that al-Baluchi developed significant brain damage . After two decades in Guantanamo Bay he is still awaiting trial.

All hail the PGA Tour.

 

[Swango1980]

Why shouldn't he, there's a World Cup in Qatar this year that everybody seems Ok with. If the world of football can turn a blind eye to medieval religous governemnt practices, then there's no reason for Mr Norman to take a political viewpoint over the same.

Actually, I think there are plenty of people not happy with a World Cup in Qatar, for numerous reasons. However, the comparison is not quite the same, as the World Cup is just a one off each time, rotated from country to country. The Saudi Golf is about pulling players away from an already successful tour, thus damaging that tour.

A better comparison might be comparing the Premier League and the proposed European Super League, and we know what the reaction to that was.

 

[timd77]

For a bit of context. The BBC published a league table of executions by nations earlier this week. Saudi Arabia were 4th, the United States were 5th.

This week a 2008 report from the Central Intelligence Agency's own inspector general was declassified. It describes how one post-9/11 detainee, Ammar al-Baluchi, was used as a "living prop" in a CIA black site to train torturers how to bounce detainees off walls. It happened with such vigour and regularity that al-Baluchi developed significant brain damage . After two decades in Guantanamo Bay he is still awaiting trial.

All hail the PGA Tour.

You’ve lost me. What’s that got to do with the pga tour? And am I wrong in thinking that the Saudi tour will be backed by the state?

 

[Golfnut1957]

You’ve lost me. What’s that got to do with the pga tour? And am I wrong in thinking that the Saudi tour will be backed by the state?

Don't worry about it.

 

[sunshine]

For a bit of context. The BBC published a league table of executions by nations earlier this week. Saudi Arabia were 4th, the United States were 5th.

This week a 2008 report from the Central Intelligence Agency's own inspector general was declassified. It describes how one post-9/11 detainee, Ammar al-Baluchi, was used as a "living prop" in a CIA black site to train torturers how to bounce detainees off walls. It happened with such vigour and regularity that al-Baluchi developed significant brain damage . After two decades in Guantanamo Bay he is still awaiting trial.

All hail the PGA Tour.

Is the PGA Tour owned and funded by the CIA?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Is the PGA Tour owned and funded by the CIA?

I think the point is that the USA also execute people for committing crimes, and have some questionable practices as stated in the case above, but no quetions are ever raised over it when we are discussing sporting integrity in the country, unlike Saudi and the other Arab nations.

The PGA Tour is fundamentally a US based and funded tour.

 

[sunshine]

If it's a tournament with top pro's playing in it then why not? Does it matter to Joe Punter who the 'tour' running it is? It might matter to the US tour as they have the most to lose but to the average golf viewer it doesn't matter.

What if the Centurion tournament was name the Osama bin Laden Memorial tournament, would that change your view?
What if Vladimir Putin was funding it?

The way Newcastle fans have celebrated the arrival of Saudi money shows that a lot of people just don’t care. $$$ before morals.

 

[sunshine]

I think the point is that the USA also execute people for committing crimes, and have some questionable practices as stated in the case above, but no quetions are ever raised over it when we are discussing sporting integrity in the country, unlike Saudi and the other Arab nations.

The PGA Tour is fundamentally a US based and funded tour.

Yes. But you can’t tar the whole USA, based on the actions of the CIA. Similarly you can’t blame ordinary Saudi citizens for the actions of the murderous state, but you can look at state backed organisations as an extension of the state.

 

[sunshine]

Why shouldn't he, there's a World Cup in Qatar this year that everybody seems Ok with. If the world of football can turn a blind eye to medieval religous governemnt practices, then there's no reason for Mr Norman to take a political viewpoint over the same.

I guess everyone needs to make their own decisions.

Just because FIFA have no morals it doesn’t provide an excuse for everyone else.

I once saw someone steal a pair of trainers from a sports shop and get away with it. I didn’t decide to join them and also steal some shoes just because I could.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Yes. But you can’t tar the whole USA, based on the actions of the CIA. Similarly you can’t blame ordinary Saudi citizens for the actions of the murderous state, but you can look at state backed organisations as an extension of the state.

Ok, were going down a political dead end here, but as you've mentioned not tarring the whole of the USA, the homicide rate there is 5 per 100,000. In Saudi, it's 0.9 per 100,000.

So in terms of murders, the Americans have some catching up to do on the Saudis.

I'm not trying to defend the Saudis here - I agree it's a very relevant factor in the proposed LIV tour, and whether it will succeed, I'm just trying to highlight that we all seem to be ambivelant to all the issues in other countries that host golf tournaments, when perhaps we shouldn't be.