LIV Golf

[Deleted member 29109]

It's a bit desperate trying to make something out of "Koepka playing for himself, not LIV" in a major. No player in the history of golf has ever competed in an individual golf tournament for anyone other than themselves.

Indeed. But cast your mind back to the masters and all the talk from Greg and other LiV players about celebrating on the 18th should another LiV player win.

Mel and the other LiV PR chap have already said that Brooks win validates LiV and will increase the value of a team. Which isn’t difficult to increase it from 0.

So. You can’t have it both ways despite desperate attempts to spin it that way. Either they are playing for themselves, or LiV and their franchise as well.

Given Brooks said after the win he didn’t care about LiV, I’m not sure why anyone else should

 

[Mel Smooth]

Given Brooks said after the win he didn’t care about LiV, I’m not sure why anyone else should

Probably time to change your signature then Bim? ;-)

 

[IanM]

I guess of you over pay 4 or 5 top players to go and play in a side show, one of them will win a proper tournament some time they return. Hardly a surprise.

I am very pleased for Brooks. He looked really down in the Netflix Programme and didn't seem to be getting an awful lot of support. This shows he's got it together and will only help.

 

[wjemather]

Indeed. But cast your mind back to the masters and all the talk from Greg and other LiV players about celebrating on the 18th should another LiV player win.

Mel and the other LiV PR chap have already said that Brooks win validates LiV and will increase the value of a team. Which isn’t difficult to increase it from 0.

So. You can’t have it both ways despite desperate attempts to spin it that way. Either they are playing for themselves, or LiV and their franchise as well.

Given Brooks said after the win he didn’t care about LiV, I’m not sure why anyone else should

It really isn't hard to understand. In LIV events they compete as individuals and as part of a team; in majors (and any other individual tournaments away from LIV) they are competing for themselves alone. Any achievement by a player in these events generates a positive effect that can be exploited (usually by sponsors); when it comes to LIV, the positive effect can be exploited by their tour in the same way the European Tour did with Ballesteros, Faldo, Langer, Lyle, Woosnam, Olazábal, Montgomerie, etc. in the 1980s and 1990s.

Also, despite what may have been reported by some of the lousier journalists out there and repeated by others elsewhere, you are not accurately reflecting what either Norman or Koepka said. In any case, players routinely celebrate with friends by the 18th green - doing so with a group of fellow LIV players would be no different to that.


Edit (as I forgot to add this earlier): here's what Koepka actually said "I definitely think it [winning the PGA] helps LIV, but I'm more interested in my own self right now, to be honest with you... Yeah, it's a huge thing for LIV, but at the same time I'm out here competing as an individual at the PGA Championship."

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Why specify “next 4 years”?
Is that how long the LIV contract is?

Reportedly yes the players who received sign on bonuses are tied into 5 year contracts so till end of 2026.

Having done some research it appears Brooks is tied into the end of 2025 so I stand corrected.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

In other news Sergio Garcia qualifies for the US Open the old fashioned way #Qualifier

If these Liv golfers had lost their drive/ambition and now just pick up their guaranteed money why would he even try to do that ?

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Claude Harmon has a foot in both tours with coaching both PGA Tour and Liv Players.

Just tells it how it is in this explosive interview.
Well worth a read.

“If I’m critical of you guys in the media, you guys portrayed this as (Brooks) took the money and then Tiger came out with his comment, you know, Tiger, the ultimate guy who got all the money up front. I mean, I was around then. He flew to his first professional golf tournament on Nike’s private jet, and he wasn’t paying for it. So you guys pushed this narrative and pretended like LIV was an exhibition, nobody watched it, you guys didn’t report on it, none of you guys came to the tournaments. I mean the golf that I saw Cam (Smith) play last year, the golf that I saw DJ play last year, the golf that I saw Brooks play at the end of the year is the same golf that is being played on the PGA Tour. You guys just tried to pretend that it wasn’t.”

Brooks Koepka's coach blasts media, bashes Brandel Chamblee for treatment of LIV Golf players

Claude Harmon III didn’t hold back with his thoughts on the LIV Golf vs. PGA Tour debate in this explosive interview.

golfweek.usatoday.com

 

[Backsticks]

Claude Harmon has a foot in both tours with coaching both PGA Tour and Liv Players.

Just tells it how it is in this explosive interview.
Well worth a read.

“If I’m critical of you guys in the media, you guys portrayed this as (Brooks) took the money and then Tiger came out with his comment, you know, Tiger, the ultimate guy who got all the money up front. I mean, I was around then. He flew to his first professional golf tournament on Nike’s private jet, and he wasn’t paying for it. So you guys pushed this narrative and pretended like LIV was an exhibition, nobody watched it, you guys didn’t report on it, none of you guys came to the tournaments. I mean the golf that I saw Cam (Smith) play last year, the golf that I saw DJ play last year, the golf that I saw Brooks play at the end of the year is the same golf that is being played on the PGA Tour. You guys just tried to pretend that it wasn’t.”

Brooks Koepka's coach blasts media, bashes Brandel Chamblee for treatment of LIV Golf players

Claude Harmon III didn’t hold back with his thoughts on the LIV Golf vs. PGA Tour debate in this explosive interview.

golfweek.usatoday.com

He is acknowledging the fact that the mainstream media isnt interested in LIV events, unlike the beLIVers who keep pushing the story that the interest in it is huge.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Claude Harmon has a foot in both tours with coaching both PGA Tour and Liv Players.

Just tells it how it is in this explosive interview.
Well worth a read.

“If I’m critical of you guys in the media, you guys portrayed this as (Brooks) took the money and then Tiger came out with his comment, you know, Tiger, the ultimate guy who got all the money up front. I mean, I was around then. He flew to his first professional golf tournament on Nike’s private jet, and he wasn’t paying for it. So you guys pushed this narrative and pretended like LIV was an exhibition, nobody watched it, you guys didn’t report on it, none of you guys came to the tournaments. I mean the golf that I saw Cam (Smith) play last year, the golf that I saw DJ play last year, the golf that I saw Brooks play at the end of the year is the same golf that is being played on the PGA Tour. You guys just tried to pretend that it wasn’t.”

Brooks Koepka's coach blasts media, bashes Brandel Chamblee for treatment of LIV Golf players

Claude Harmon III didn’t hold back with his thoughts on the LIV Golf vs. PGA Tour debate in this explosive interview.

golfweek.usatoday.com

Some really good issues raised by Harmon in that article - it kind of reflects what a number of us have been saying on here for months and months..
There's plenty I could pick out from the article to discuss, but I've selected this, as it's something we've been discussing recently in the thread - it looks to me like Koepka is still more than committed to LIV, and indeed, if he's on zoom meetings half the day, I'd imagine it's because he's working on, amongst other things, negotiating deals for Smash GC - they are coming...

“But honestly, we had to tell him in Orlando, Ricky and I said, ‘Hey, we need you to focus on golf,’ because he is in every meeting. Brooks knows more about LIV other than Phil, he knows more about the inner workings of LIV than any player. So at Augusta he’s playing good and people are like, ‘yeah, but he’s really not a LIV guy because he plays with Rory and he hasn’t come out and bashed them.’ Like when he’s home, he’s like, ‘Hey, can we hit balls tomorrow between 10 and 12 because I’m on Zoom calls the rest of the afternoon.’ Like, he’s nonstop. He knows more about LIV and the teams and the inner workings because he’s in everything. Anybody that thinks that he’s done all that to just walk away from all of this, he just doesn’t have any beef with the Tour. He doesn’t have any beef with anybody on the Tour. He doesn’t have any beef with Jay Monahan. He just chose to go play LIV, that’s all this was.”

 

[Deleted member 21445]

He is acknowledging the fact that the mainstream media isnt interested in LIV events, unlike the beLIVers who keep pushing the story that the interest in it is huge.

He is also acknowledging that the mainstream golf media has chosen to follow a narrative that isn't true to try and keep the interest from getting huge...

 

[Backsticks]

He is also acknowledging that the mainstream golf media has chosen to follow a narrative that isn't true to try and keep the interest from getting huge...

When the global media, which starts out with no agenda, has assessed LIV as an uncompetitive exhibition event, it probably is. That same assessment chimes with the majority of golf fans.

Suggesting media chooses to fillow a narrative is indicative of delusional thinking and alternative truths, Trump style.

Criticising the media for not saying what LIV would like them to say, and not endorsising LIV marketing lines reinforces the view that LIV is struggling, and flailing at the rest of the world rather than acknowledging the reality itself.

Its like a losing football manager criticising the referee, or despotic regimes taking control of the press to ensure they dont write the truth. The LIV backers may be able to control the media narrative in Saudi Arabia, but they cannot do so world wide.

 

[Swango1980]

He is also acknowledging that the mainstream golf media has chosen to follow a narrative that isn't true to try and keep the interest from getting huge...

Surely the media are really only interested in making money. If they thought LIV could be huge, as it stands today, then I'd have thought there would be plenty of interest from media.

The media outlets that currently have ties with PGAT and DPWT have probably decided sticking with those tours is very much the safe bet? As for other media outlets, why would they not be all over LIV like a rash, if it is that amazing and golf fans are likely to lap it up?

 

[AussieKB]

Surely the media are really only interested in making money. If they thought LIV could be huge, as it stands today, then I'd have thought there would be plenty of interest from media.

The media outlets that currently have ties with PGAT and DPWT have probably decided sticking with those tours is very much the safe bet? As for other media outlets, why would they not be all over LIV like a rash, if it is that amazing and golf fans are likely to lap it up?

The US media is a joke these days, they do not report facts on anything but push agenda's, an impartial media is now a myth.

 

[Swango1980]

The US media is a joke these days, they do not report facts on anything but push agenda's, an impartial media is now a myth.

All media are not to be trusted in my opinion, but they still want to make money. That is why they can't be trusted, it is more about making money than telling the truth.

Why push an agenda that stops them cashing in?

Of course, if you listen to individual viewpoints, you can find strong pro or anti LIV comments. Claude has ties to a LIV golfer, so of course he is not going to slate it, and very likely support it. People with links to PGAT and not to LIV very likey the opposite. All of that is just expected noise. It's the media that need to get onside to help it grow, and it seems they just are not that interested yet.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Some really good issues raised by Harmon in that article - it kind of reflects what a number of us have been saying on here for months and months..
There's plenty I could pick out from the article to discuss, but I've selected this, as it's something we've been discussing recently in the thread - it looks to me like Koepka is still more than committed to LIV, and indeed, if he's on zoom meetings half the day, I'd imagine it's because he's working on, amongst other things, negotiating deals for Smash GC - they are coming...

“But honestly, we had to tell him in Orlando, Ricky and I said, ‘Hey, we need you to focus on golf,’ because he is in every meeting. Brooks knows more about LIV other than Phil, he knows more about the inner workings of LIV than any player. So at Augusta he’s playing good and people are like, ‘yeah, but he’s really not a LIV guy because he plays with Rory and he hasn’t come out and bashed them.’ Like when he’s home, he’s like, ‘Hey, can we hit balls tomorrow between 10 and 12 because I’m on Zoom calls the rest of the afternoon.’ Like, he’s nonstop. He knows more about LIV and the teams and the inner workings because he’s in everything. Anybody that thinks that he’s done all that to just walk away from all of this, he just doesn’t have any beef with the Tour. He doesn’t have any beef with anybody on the Tour. He doesn’t have any beef with Jay Monahan. He just chose to go play LIV, that’s all this was.”

Is what I highlighted not the key part ?

It’s what you “imagine” and your imagination is purely from a full blown pro liv stance ?


What if someone was to say that the zoom calls are then worried about future financial issues because Saudis want the Tour to stand on its own ? The calls are them worried that there is very little money coming in from any major revenue? The fact that some of the little gestures from Saudis have already stopped - the party planes , the change in the team winnings. Maybe they are having to constantly call because they can’t get anything major coming ?


See it’s all about what slant you want to take

But its unknown until something happens or doesn’t happen - but all these franchises and sponsors were supposed to be “coming” last season and they didn’t ?


Also did anyone expect Claude Harmon to be anything negative about Koepka and LIV ? He is employed by Koepka.

It also seems to go against what even people like you were saying about Koepka really only caring about the majors ? And also what the player himself was saying in the Netflix documentary


But what Koepka has done is play a blinder for his brother - he helped him find some sort of career where he couldn’t make it before on any tour

 

[Backsticks]

But what Koepka has done is play a blinder for his brother - he helped him find some sort of career where he couldn’t make it before on any tour

To the detriment of LIVs credibility. As long as that sort of nepotism are involved, having a low grade golfer in a tour aspiring to be top level, is just shooting itself in the foot. Chase wouldnt even be in the best M golfers in the world, let alone L.

 

[Mel Smooth]

To the detriment of LIVs credibility. As long as that sort of nepotism are involved, having a low grade golfer in a tour aspiring to be top level, is just shooting itself in the foot. Chase wouldnt even be in the best M golfers in the world, let alone L.

And yet the PGAT were creaming themselves over Block at the weekend, and will rinse every last dime they can out of him this weekend and going forwards.

Having lower level players having stellar moments in big events, is what makes the game so great.

 

[Swango1980]

And yet the PGAT were creaming themselves over Block at the weekend, and will rinse every last dime they can out of him this weekend and going forwards.

Having lower level players having stellar moments in big events, is what makes the game so great.

If Block played every PGAT event, in field sizes of 48 with only a handful of who would be considered the very best golfers in the world by most, then I've no doubt that Michael Block would get any headlines, and certainly wouldn't have the PGAT "creaming" themselves over him?

However, you might think different. Is the goal of LIV to have Chase Koepka on tour, as a golfer with significantly less quality than others, so that if he does well they can have their Michael Block moment, and start "creaming" themselves about an unusually good performance in an event?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And yet the PGAT were creaming themselves over Block at the weekend, and will rinse every last dime they can out of him this weekend and going forwards.

Having lower level players having stellar moments in big events, is what makes the game so great.

There is no comparison to a player who spent 6 years trying to qualify for any tour and making very little success


To a PGA Pro who has a once in a lifetime chance during a major

It’s two massively different stories for obvious reasons

There doesn’t always have to be some mirror issue or situation on the PGAT for you to deflect too

 

[Mel Smooth]

If Block played every PGAT event, in field sizes of 48 with only a handful of who would be considered the very best golfers in the world by most, then I've no doubt that Michael Block would get any headlines, and certainly wouldn't have the PGAT "creaming" themselves over him?

However, you might think different. Is the goal of LIV to have Chase Koepka on tour, as a golfer with significantly less quality than others, so that if he does well they can have their Michael Block moment, and start "creaming" themselves about an unusually good performance in an event?

The goal of LIV will be to develop the strongest teams they can over time.

Chase Koepka probably isn’t part of the long term planning of Smash GC, but he had a stellar moment, same as Block.

It’s great to see, regardless of where it happens, isnt it?