LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

Of course it matters - the Owgr are mainly used for entry into the majors and golf tournaments, that’s the whole idea of them. Why do you think they were created in the first place. Any other ranking systems are irrelevant because they aren’t recognised by any governing body

Majors are doing fine and don’t appear to be missing any big players as been stated many times , any player that’s worthy of entry into a major will have found a way to qualify through performances in other majors

I suspect anyone winning a major won’t give a flying monkey if it’s missing some LIV players

And why do you keep bringing the PGAT into it as if they are the sole reason ? The rankings are more than the PGAT

The OWGR pre-dates LIV, as I said, if the Majors are happy to be selecting the best players from a restricted field, let them, if they want to select the best players in the world, the need to ditch their ranking system - it's not a difficult concept to grasp.
We've had one major so far where the LIV players more than demonstrated that they are still competetive, so why try and weed them out over future events on a defunct ranking system.
The agenda for maintaining the OWGR is to try and force LIV to fail, and given that LIV is now the 2nd most relevant tour in professional golf, you know full well the PGA Tour hoping that will be the case.

 

[Swango1980]

Totally agree 100%.

The biggest accomplishment by LIV so far is convincing the world that they're relevant and that the majors are nothing without them.

I don't think they've convinced too many just yet, except for themselves and their fanboys

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The OWGR pre-dates LIV, as I said, if the Majors are happy to be selecting the best players from a restricted field, let them, if they want to select the best players in the world, the need to ditch their ranking system - it's not a difficult concept to grasp.
We've had one major so far where the LIV players more than demonstrated that they are still competetive, so why try and weed them out over future events on a defunct ranking system.
The agenda for maintaining the OWGR is to try and force LIV to fail, and given that LIV is now the 2nd most relevant tour in professional golf, you know full well the PGA Tour hoping that will be the case.

they will still pick the best players to play in the majors the best players on LIV have exemptions in majors and when they play in majors will gain points and also spots in other majors if they show they are good enough

The majors will pick from 99% of the professional golf world

Since when did LIV become the “second most relevant tour” ?!

The rankings aren’t going to change to suit one tour when it fits every single other professional tour - LIV doesn’t hold all the cards regardless of what you think , if LIV wants to join in then it changes to fit , things are going to change to suit LIV. It’s not that relevant or important in the sport.

Think you will get a major shock when the Saudis find a way out

 

[Newtonuti]

The OWGR pre-dates LIV, as I said, if the Majors are happy to be selecting the best players from a restricted field, let them, if they want to select the best players in the world, the need to ditch their ranking system - it's not a difficult concept to grasp.
We've had one major so far where the LIV players more than demonstrated that they are still competetive, so why try and weed them out over future events on a defunct ranking system.
The agenda for maintaining the OWGR is to try and force LIV to fail, and given that LIV is now the 2nd most relevant tour in professional golf, you know full well the PGA Tour hoping that will be the case.

To be fair, the only players who would be missed in majors, are exempt anyway.

 

[Backsticks]

Even if LIV stop holding things up with the OWGR, I am not sure the OWGR needs to do anything anyway. Who is missing from a major at the moment ? Nobody. And with no top class new joiners, an uncompetitive structure that doesnt test golfers to the top of world level, no player can make a case through LIV tournaments that they should be in majors. So neither players, nor majors are losing out. OWGR can just sit this one out, rather than modify a system for a tour that has no golfers with a claim to inclusion. And thats even if LIV keeps going at all.

 

[BubbaP]

To be fair, the only players who would be missed in majors, are exempt anyway.

And that may be true for a large number of golf spectators but I suspect the general angle @Kaz was raising is should say Alex Smalley & Patrick Rodgers be in the field instead of say Howell III, Uihlein or B Grace.
It is tricky and no system is perfect
(For clarity no-one needs to post "they made the decision etc.... ")

 

[Backsticks]

And that may be true for a large number of golf spectators but I suspect the general angle @Kaz was raising is should say Alex Smalley & Patrick Rodgers be in the field instead of say Howell III, Uihlein or B Grace.
It is tricky and no system is perfect
(For clarity no-one needs to post "they made the decision etc.... ")

They shouldnt be. LIV is not a sufficiently competitive, open, and benchmarked against other tournaments, series of tournaments for them to be able to make a case for themselves. They may be good enough - but if they cannot demonstrate that, and that is impossible on LIV regardless of any OWGR points allocations - then they cannot expect to be in the field.

 

[BubbaP]

They shouldnt be. LIV is not a sufficiently competitive, open, and benchmarked against other tournaments, series of tournaments for them to be able to make a case for themselves. They may be good enough - but if they cannot demonstrate that, and that is impossible on LIV regardless of any OWGR points allocations - then they cannot expect to be in the field.

It's great you clarified your view, I genuinely hadn't been able to ascertain your position on this from the gazillion similar previous posts from you

 

[ColchesterFC]

For me the biggest issue that LIV is facing is that nearly all of the discussion around it is about issues other than the golf that is being played. Even regularly reading this thread I've got no idea who won the last LIV event. I think that Taylor Gooch might have won the previous two but as far as the most recent one goes, I haven't got a clue which individual or team won it. Even the big fans of LIV don't seem to be talking about the actual golf and instead are focussing on OWGR and entry into the majors. If LIV want to be seen as a serious golf tour they need to shift the narrative so that it's the golf that is being discussed rather than the sideshow.

 

[BubbaP]

For me the biggest issue that LIV is facing is that nearly all of the discussion around it is about issues other than the golf that is being played. Even regularly reading this thread I've got no idea who won the last LIV event. I think that Taylor Gooch might have won the previous two but as far as the most recent one goes, I haven't got a clue which individual or team won it. Even the big fans of LIV don't seem to be talking about the actual golf and instead are focussing on OWGR and entry into the majors. If LIV want to be seen as a serious golf tour they need to shift the narrative so that it's the golf that is being discussed rather than the sideshow.

A couple of observations ftom my POV, the majority of posts in this thread are from posters vehemently anti it, and whilst they are of course welcome to that opinion - I believe the toxicity that has created generally discourages the type of posting you refer to.
Due to the weather delay and play off, it didn’t conclude to circa 1 am - the forum was pretty quiet by then.
On the off chance you wish to know:

Johnson wins play-off to claim LIV Tulsa title

Dustin Johnson birdies the first play-off hole to beat Cameron Smith and Branden Grace to claim the inaugural LIV Golf Tulsa title.

www.bbc.co.uk

SA's Stingers pay tribute to late golfer Bland with blue ribbons and a win at LIV Tulsa | Sport

South African LIV team, the Stingers, paid tribute to the late John Bland following the LIV event in Tulsa where Branden Grace sealed a second victory for the team.

www.news24.com

Out of intetest did you know who won the AT&T purely from this forum?
Maybe it is the nature of forums to chat about the ancillary stuff more, e.g.

DP World Tour Feeder Tour ?

It’s prob fair to say that since the mid 00’s and maybe earlier players from the ET have looked to move across to the PGAT Reasons - money , entry into majors , ranking points So is there anyway the DP Tour ( hate that name ) can try and find a way to Buck the trend ? Or has the ship sailed...

forums.golfmonthly.com

 

[Mel Smooth]

Agree with the first part but not necessarily the second. The OWGR is going to have to adapt but I have sympathy for them as the disruptor has come in and set out to discredit them while steadfastly refusing to meet the established criteria. OWGR's biggest problem then is how do you fairly rate performances on LIV which is clearly an entirely different thing to the established pro golf tours. The truth is a win on liv is worth a fraction of a win on the PGA tour but you know liv aren't going to accept that.

LIV haven't come in to discredit the OWGR. The OWGR ranks tournaments with limited fieilds, invitationals and no cut events - all part of the criteria that LIV is built on - and what sets it apart from many other golf tours. The caveat of course is that those events on the established tours are part of a tour that already has OWGR points, hardly surprising as the OWGR is an extension of those tours. The OWGR is discrediting itself with it's refusal to adapt to something different, that is essentially the same as what they already cater for
Also, a win on LIV is not worth a fraction of a win on the PGA/DPWT - having a massive field of also rans doesn't make it more difficult to win something if you're an elite sportsperson, what makes it more difficult to win is having highly rated competitors competing directly against you. Many PGAT events no longer have that depth of field that they did pre LIV.
There are of course multiple PGAT events that are difficult to win, but they are all significantly easier to win now, then they were before the PGAT banned some of the best players in teh world from competing in them.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

LIV haven't come in to discredit the OWGR. The OWGR ranks tournaments with limited fieilds, invitationals and no cut events - all part of the criteria that LIV is built on - and what sets it apart from many other golf tours. The caveat of course is that those events on the established tours are part of a tour that already has OWGR points, hardly surprising as the OWGR is an extension of those tours. The OWGR is discrediting itself with it's refusal to adapt to something different, that is essentially the same as what they already cater for
Also, a win on LIV is not worth a fraction of a win on the PGA/DPWT - having a massive field of also rans doesn't make it more difficult to win something if you're an elite sportsperson, what makes it more difficult to win is having highly rated competitors competing directly against you. Many PGAT events no longer have that depth of field that they did pre LIV.
There are of course multiple PGAT events that are difficult to win, but they are all significantly easier to win now, then they were before the PGAT banned some of the best players in teh world from competing in them.

Gooch has 3 wins, thus it can't be harder to win.

 

[Swango1980]

LIV haven't come in to discredit the OWGR. The OWGR ranks tournaments with limited fieilds, invitationals and no cut events - all part of the criteria that LIV is built on - and what sets it apart from many other golf tours. The caveat of course is that those events on the established tours are part of a tour that already has OWGR points, hardly surprising as the OWGR is an extension of those tours. The OWGR is discrediting itself with it's refusal to adapt to something different, that is essentially the same as what they already cater for
Also, a win on LIV is not worth a fraction of a win on the PGA/DPWT - having a massive field of also rans doesn't make it more difficult to win something if you're an elite sportsperson, what makes it more difficult to win is having highly rated competitors competing directly against you. Many PGAT events no longer have that depth of field that they did pre LIV.
There are of course multiple PGAT events that are difficult to win, but they are all significantly easier to win now, then they were before the PGAT banned some of the best players in teh world from competing in them.

The few no cut events included in the OWGR are run by tours who are built on most events fulfilling the key criteria required by OWGR. Thus, there is a basis for being able ro rank players against each other over the course of the season, and being able to extend that when it comes to these few events where there is no cut and a limited field.

If ALL PGAT events, or any other tour were limited field, no cut and mainly invitation only, then the OWGR would not be able to accommodate them in the same way.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

LIV haven't come in to discredit the OWGR. The OWGR ranks tournaments with limited fieilds, invitationals and no cut events - all part of the criteria that LIV is built on - and what sets it apart from many other golf tours. The caveat of course is that those events on the established tours are part of a tour that already has OWGR points, hardly surprising as the OWGR is an extension of those tours. The OWGR is discrediting itself with it's refusal to adapt to something different, that is essentially the same as what they already cater for
Also, a win on LIV is not worth a fraction of a win on the PGA/DPWT - having a massive field of also rans doesn't make it more difficult to win something if you're an elite sportsperson, what makes it more difficult to win is having highly rated competitors competing directly against you. Many PGAT events no longer have that depth of field that they did pre LIV.
There are of course multiple PGAT events that are difficult to win, but they are all significantly easier to win now, then they were before the PGAT banned some of the best players in teh world from competing in them.

Surely you’re on a wind up now


The rankings do rank - limited fields , no cuts etc and you know full well the events that they cover and why

Development tours - is LIV a development tour ?

They also stipulate that the tours main body of events must have

72 holes , cut , qualifying etc


All the requirements were know to Liv when they applied , it wasn’t a sudden change of rules to stop LIV , every single other tour follows those requirements and it’s clear that LIV have been given what’s needed to ensure they get points. It’s not up to everyone else to change things to suit one small tour.

Why can’t LIV adapt or does it expect everything else to change to suit them.

You do know that there is a very small handful of decent golfers on LIV and a bunch of other also rans and players coming towards the end of their careers

What a surprise that players that couldn’t win on a major tour are doing well on a shorten format against a smaller field - because it’s easier to win. A win on the LIV is worth little compared to a win on a main tour.

To suggest that tour events are “significantly” easier to win based on a handful of golfers not playing in them is delusional

 

[r0wly86]

Surely you’re on a wind up now


The rankings do rank - limited fields , no cuts etc and you know full well the events that they cover and why

Development tours - is LIV a development tour ?

They also stipulate that the tours main body of events must have

72 holes , cut , qualifying etc


All the requirements were know to Liv when they applied , it wasn’t a sudden change of rules to stop LIV , every single other tour follows those requirements and it’s clear that LIV have been given what’s needed to ensure they get points. It’s not up to everyone else to change things to suit one small tour.

Why can’t LIV adapt or does it expect everything else to change to suit them.

You do know that there is a very small handful of decent golfers on LIV and a bunch of other also rans and players coming towards the end of their careers

What a surprise that players that couldn’t win on a major tour are doing well on a shorten format against a smaller field - because it’s easier to win. A win on the LIV is worth little compared to a win on a main tour.

To suggest that tour events are “significantly” easier to win based on a handful of golfers not playing in them is delusional

I am pretty sure this has been explained multiple times

 

[Backsticks]

For me the biggest issue that LIV is facing is that nearly all of the discussion around it is about issues other than the golf that is being played. Even regularly reading this thread I've got no idea who won the last LIV event. I think that Taylor Gooch might have won the previous two but as far as the most recent one goes, I haven't got a clue which individual or team won it. Even the big fans of LIV don't seem to be talking about the actual golf and instead are focussing on OWGR and entry into the majors. If LIV want to be seen as a serious golf tour they need to shift the narrative so that it's the golf that is being discussed rather than the sideshow.

This is the reality. Golf fans and media are (or were, as LIV looks increasingly a damp squib) more interested in LIV the supposed rival of the PGAT, than the actual golf of LIV.
Golf commentary cannot be blamed for that - if anything it is proof of the low level of golfers, and lack of credible real golf tournaments offered by LIV. For the moment. Maybe that will change if they receuit more, or disappear altogether if they dont.

But for the moment, it is what it is. A tour with little interest in its golf.

As to the forum, this thread works fine for news and views on LIV as an entity. There is the Professional Golf thread for actual tournament discussion which covers any and all tours.

 

[AussieKB]

Interesting comment from John Rahm

"I never got into the feud. I've never had any negative feelings towards any player that went over to LIV.
"In fact, I've mentioned many times I still play with many of them and still try to figure out -- try to play practice rounds with Phil, played with Talor Gooch yesterday. Really doesn't make a difference to me."

 

[Beezerk]

Interesting comment from John Rahm

"I never got into the feud. I've never had any negative feelings towards any player that went over to LIV.
"In fact, I've mentioned many times I still play with many of them and still try to figure out -- try to play practice rounds with Phil, played with Talor Gooch yesterday. Really doesn't make a difference to me."

It’s how it should be imo, concentrate on your own game and what affects you rather than making noises to try to wind people up. Yes Rory I’m looking at you

 

[Deleted member 21445]

It’s how it should be imo, concentrate on your own game and what affects you rather than making noises to try to wind people up. Yes Rory I’m looking at you

To be fair Rory has had a big change in rhetoric around Liv this week.

In his press conference he shut down every question about Liv where as in the past he couldnt help but stoke the fire along with many others on both sides of the divide.

 

[AddisonRoad]

To be fair Rory has had a big change in rhetoric around Liv this week.

In his press conference he shut down every question about Liv where as in the past he couldnt help but stoke the fire along with many others on both sides of the divide.

Probably just bored with it and understands it will be folded by 2026. Hard to wind up someone about a rival tour with GUR fairway events in Tulsa.